Nathan Doyle on Training Racehorses in Newcastle

0:00 Meet Nathan Doyle in Newcastle

George 0:00 We're here for Episode 4 of our Kurrinda Bloodstock podcast, Off N Racing, and we're in the Prince of Meriwether again. We came back to Newcastle to see a very special guest, Nathan Doyle. Nathan, thanks for joining us, mate. Nathan Doyle, thanks for having us, fellas. How have you been? What's been happening? Not a lot. I'd be better after a few beverages. Can't believe you guys are going to Brisbane and can't back up. Yeah. I thought you were better than that. Nathan Doyle, we thought you'd come with us. I'd say they'd be signed you after that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I'm not allowed back home. So I've got to get citizenship here. And now I mean, we'll just get into this and get them a bit to know about you and give our in our listeners insight into your life and how it is as a trainer. Did you always want to be a trainer or was there something else in mind? No, I always wanted to be trying to George probably ever since I was a trainer.

1:00 Always wanting to be a trainer

Nathan Doyle 1:00 Since I was in sort of racing or knew about racing. It's something I wanted to do. My uncle's still got the photo or the drawing on the wall to this day when I was five or six year old. And I drew him a picture of a horse and I had around it how many horses I was going to train and what they were going to be. They were going to be paying horses. So I didn't have much of an idea, but you probably gather from a very young age is something. I always wanted to do and just love the animals and probably grew up uncles and dad were punters. I always at the races and dad's best mate was a horse trainer. So I was always at the stables there and just grew up and it's something I always wanted to do and be around horses. So that's the path I went down.

George 1:50 And how come training like, cause most people grow up and they want to be a jockey or something because they see them in the limelight all the time, but you always wanted to be a trainer.

Nathan Doyle 2:00 Yeah, I never had aspirations to be a jockey. I don't know why, but always wanted to train horses and I held a trainer as long as I was 21. I was young and dumb and no idea. I'll admit that, but I was always driven to succeed. And I went away and worked in Sydney for five years and had three great tutors along the path there. And with me partner Mel, I thought the time was right to sort of venture out on our own and we've had some success so far. And our aim is to be more prominent in the metropolitans. And I think we're going down that path. We're starting to get that good quality of stock to be able to aim up in that direction. And it's been a good ride so far.

2:45 Learning in Sydney and the small details

Sean 2:45 And you mentioned your influences, Nath, in Sydney. Who helped you?

Nathan Doyle 2:49 I can't define one, to be honest. I was with Peter and Paul Snowden and then Martin Newnham and they're all great to me, but probably as hard as it is to probably say, going down there, what I've got out of being in Sydney, it is a lot of what you know, but it's also who you know as well. You need the support, you need the stock, you need the backing. And I got to know some great people down there. But you also got to pick up and learn how to train a horse. And those fellas, they're very good around horses. And a lot of the time you didn't even have to ask questions. You just watch, learn, look at their worksheets. And they sort of just flowed on from there. Like I didn't go out real often when I was in Sydney. I'd prefer to look at the worksheets that we had the day before and sort of dissect how they got a horse to the races and how they got it to peak on the right day. Because training horses, it's not easy, I can tell you that. There's so many one percenters that go into getting them to win races. You think it's easy, you feed them, you work them, you go out there and they just, if they're good enough, they win. But a lot of people don't know that horses are prone to asthma. 80% of horses can bleed in the race. It doesn't come out their nose. It's all about keeping their airways clean and also happy, fit, eaten. It's just so much it goes into it. And you need good staff around you to do it.

Sean 4:20 And they can't speak to you. Like our listeners, they can't talk to us.

Nathan Doyle 4:24 Exactly right. And probably if they could, it wouldn't be as enjoyable as it is, you know what I mean? And if there was a textbook for training horses, everyone would be doing it, wouldn't they? So I suppose that's always the unknown and that's always things that keep you guessing, probably keep you awake too much at night sometimes as well. But that's why we're in it, for the love of the animals and you guys are the same.

Sean 4:48 So for our listeners, you being at those biggest stables, being around the better horses, would you say it's easier training the better horses or harder?

Nathan Doyle 5:01 Good horses are good horses. Yeah. Yeah. You're in, probably what I learned is how to pick quality stock. Going down there, you're working with some very good animals. I was there with Russian Revolution, capitalist, just to name a few. And they just, they walk with swagger. You know what I mean? You pull them into the box and then go, you're going somewhere.

George 5:26 They just give you that feeling.

Nathan Doyle 5:27 Give you that feeling.

Sean 5:28 It's like, it's an energy, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Nathan Doyle 5:32 And it's hard to describe, but when we go to yearling sales, you know what to pick for then. They come out, they've got a bit of presence. It's even kids at school or something, you know, you can pick the athletic kids and even walking down the street, people walking down the street, if they're walking with a bit of presence and they're not sloppy, you know what I mean?

Sean 5:53 It transpires to the races and I heard that all the time about myself. Sloppy?

Nathan Doyle 6:00 Sloppy or athlete?

6:01 Starting out and earning owners' trust

George 6:01 Only the asthma. But, mate, you're saying about like starting up and that, what like was the catalyst to take the plunge and like was it hard to get people to trust you to like put their trust in you to train their horses and that starting out?

Nathan Doyle 6:21 Well, I didn't have any trust to start with. First three horses I trained on myself, me and Melo and ourselves and it sort of just rolled on from there. Our first runner was a winner. We had two horses and work. First one won, the other one got a bit of a nose in the race after. So it just sort of rolled on from there and, you know what I mean, you just got to put the hard work in and you will get the rewards. And then the people you got to know sort of seen you and then they started supporting you with horses, you know what I mean? But it's very hard unless, until you prove it, no one wants to really give you a horse. Until you can prove you're a two-year-old trainer, they won't give you two-year-old type sort of thing. So it just sort of rolled on from there and we're starting to build up that stable now where we feel that in the next 12 to 18 months, there will be a lot more prominent in Sydney racing and that's where I want to be. And I think it works with us so well because we're on the same path. You want your colours down there in metropolitan racing and us or myself as a trainer, Mel, our stable, we want to be prominent in metropolitan racing. That's the direction we want to go down. Like the prize money I'm offering in Sydney racing, it's mouthwatering. I mean, like to be honest, the comparison from country training fees to metropolitan and even provincial to what you're racing for, it's massive, you know what I mean? To go on $13,000 for a winner in the country to $18,000 for a winner in Sydney. I think it's just something you've got to strive for. It's a massive profit margin if you can get those horses and we feel the stock you guys are buying as well, they're quality animals and the next 18 months, two years, I think will be really prominent down there.

Sean 8:16 Yeah, and it just snowballs. I said this to George, like you suddenly, it might feel like a slow process, but you have to have the patience, don't you? Because then once you get the nice horses, it can snowball.

8:28 Quality horses and the fun of city racing

Nathan Doyle 8:28 Yeah, definitely, definitely. But one thing I'd probably say to people that the cheapest part is probably buying the horse. So buy the horse you want. Yeah. Buy that athlete and if it's a bit dearer, don't hesitate in going in, even if you drop your percentage down from 5% to 2.5% because it's a dearer horse. But I can tell you what, the fun that you'll have in racing in metropolitan going down there and Saturday city meetings, it's an unbelievable feeling. And you know as well as I, we're in it for a good time as well. So that's the main reason you sort of want to do it. You want to strive to get them good horses and if you can get them stakes class horses, it's a massive bonus as well. But I feel we're on the right upward spiral anyway.

9:15 Sacrifices and keeping the stable at 50

Sean 9:15 And for our listeners, you say like it's, you've got to put in the hard work, but it's a lot of sacrifices too, isn't it?

Nathan Doyle 9:21 But you don't have much of a life. You just don't. No, you don't. You don't. You enjoy the good times when it does happen and you may go out here and there, but you're regretting it for four or five days after. You're here. Yeah. I'll get back on the horse unlike you fellas. But yeah, no, it is tough going. Like people think you're not replying their messages or you're not answering their phone calls. But sometimes you're sleeping on the run. You know what I mean? You don't sleep a lot, to be honest. And it's not that you don't want to answer them, but to get the best out of horses, sometimes you've got to be hands on and you've got to be with them. Like I can sit at home on the back of the computer and give you an update every two days on how your horse is going, but is it ***? Exactly right. You know what I mean? I'd rather be, I love animals and I like being with them, you know what I mean? And that's how you will get the results. And it's something probably I don't want to lose. Like I probably, we're at 40 in work at the moment, probably would go to 50, but I probably don't want to go any bigger than that. I think probably at 50 to 60, you can compete in Sydney on a regular basis because you're going to have those young horses going through.

Sean 10:44 And keep improving those 50 like all the time.

Nathan Doyle 10:47 A hundred percent. But I think if I went to a hundred in work, that's when I'm sitting behind a computer.

George 10:53 Well, that's where you lose, as you said, those one percenters that are so important. Like you lose control over them a bit. Yeah.

Nathan Doyle 11:00 And there's so many good trainers around these days. You've got to get your one percenters right. Yeah. Normally, better horses all went to the better trainers, but they're getting spread out so much these days. And to get them one percenters right to know your horses. I said the trainer, ask them to know that horse airway is clean. And if you're there the day before a Saturday afternoon shift, you have a look at their nostrils, no cough and clean water, their bed and stuff. It's down. Simple things like that. You know what I mean? That's where I'd rather sort of be with the horse. But I think we're getting the nice results. And like I said, in the next 18 months to two years, I feel that we'll be down there on a regular basis. Yeah.

11:41 Moving to Newcastle and staying there

Sean 11:41 And a lot of the new people that have come into racing might not know Nathan and his partner. You started in the country, didn't you? So moving to Newcastle to provincial racing, it was a big step, wasn't it? Like it took a lot of guts.

Nathan Doyle 11:57 It was a big step. But I think we only had 12 horses when we first moved down here. And a lot of people said, oh, what are you going down there for? You haven't got the quality of stock. I said, well, fair enough. And I'm running a couple of me better clients. And I said, oh, I'm looking to go into Newcastle to start training. And I said, no worries. We'll have to send you some better horses. So I sort of, it was probably the best thing I ever did. And to say you can't train a good horse out of Newcastle, that's ***. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Fastnet Rock, Swazier. Yeah. Some many of this. It's not too far to go down that highway. It's a cruisy drive. We've got great facilities here at Newcastle. We've got good tracks. So they're good enough. They're going to knock on that group level of city racing. Yep.

Sean 12:47 Do you see yourself leaving Newcastle? Would you go into that metro environment? Never say never. Yep.

Nathan Doyle 12:54 But you've just got to roll with the puncher. I suppose the hardest bit would be you've got to set up a whole new staff base. It's not as simple like a normal business. We've got a surf shop somewhere. We're going to spend out and move to Sydney. You know what I mean? It's not that easy. You know what I mean? You've got to…

Sean 13:14 You've got your systems.

Nathan Doyle 13:15 All your riders live here. All your ground staff live here. You've got to…

George 13:18 And then all your assistants and what you like.

Nathan Doyle 13:20 And if you move 50 horses somewhere, you go, bang, I need six riders and 14 ground staff. You're not going to be there. You know what I mean? So that's probably the hardest part. And if we can sort of get the boxes here. And like I said, it's a good training facility. Group one horses have been trained out of here. It's been proven. The statistics show that. So if we're able to sort of grow here and get the results, I don't see a reason to move.

13:47 First-up and second-up form

George 13:47 And you say about results, mate. A lot of our listeners and punters out there, they'd all know you have a great record first and second up. Is that something you're mindful of with your horses or that you target or…?

Nathan Doyle 14:01 Not really. But a lot of people say that. First up, they go good. Second up, they go a bit flat. It's not something I really train. But I think we just get our horses right. We know when they're ready to head to the races. We know when they've got a good base fitness. They've got two trials on their belt. Or if they've had that one trial, we know we'll put the groundwork into them at home. And they're forward in condition where probably not every trainer is the same. But a lot of trainers sort of race them in the fitness. But it's not our sort of style. But I feel that our probably second up record has improved. It's one thing in this game. You never stop learning. That day you know everything. It's a day to walk away. Yeah. So we sort of get results first. We sort of change things over the last six months. We sort of back off them a little bit into their second up run. And that seems to work. And they seem to be sort of springboarding through that way. But I said you never stop learning. So you always keep improving. And hopefully the results keep coming.

15:06 Working with a partner and race-day pressure

Sean 15:06 So I know myself. Like I work with my partner. You work with your partner. Who's the real boss? And do you have a few arguments here and there?

Nathan Doyle 15:15 Do you want to go to that?

Sean 15:20 I don't. No.

Nathan Doyle 15:23 It is tough going. But it's probably easier to get results. You can go to the races with six runners one day and train four winners. And you're copping a hammering off the two that got beat from their owners. You know what I mean? It's not like you own them all yourself. You go there. You just take it as it comes. You know what I mean? So you're always dealing with issues in this game. But I suppose the results outweigh that. It's an unbeatable feeling. It's a good day. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. People describe what it's like to own a racehorse. I've never been in racehorses before. Or what it's like to train a winner. Like I grew up playing footy. It's like playing a grand final. You know what I mean? You can't beat that feeling. You can't describe it. That moment you go through. No. That enjoyment. The butterflies. It doesn't matter if it's a gossip mate. You know what I mean? You still feel the same. You still feel a bit of pressure. And when you do get the result, it's quite pleasing. Yeah. Yeah.

Sean 16:25 Especially when they start $1.45. Yeah. Yeah.

Nathan Doyle 16:28 It was at Boston Rocks. Yeah.

Sean 16:32 There's a little bit more pressure.

Nathan Doyle 16:33 A bit of pressure that day, wasn't there? Yeah.

George 16:35 They've got a bit of ability. There's pressure, isn't there?

Sean 16:38 Well, there's an expectation. And we don't put the prices up. But at that price, they expect them to win, don't they? Yeah.

Nathan Doyle 16:44 Ah, you's expected to win. You's a box walking before the race.

George 16:49 Put the pressure on me. We knew it was in good hands. Got beat. Even you couldn't mess that one up there. No, I doubt you.

Sean 16:55 I think we said it again with the previous podcast with Matthew. Like, it's a lifestyle. This isn't a job. Like, it's every single day, 24-7, isn't it? Yeah.

17:11 No holidays and the pressure of the sales

Nathan Doyle 17:11 Well, I haven't had a holiday for four and a half years. My holiday is going to horse sales.

George 17:18 I'm going to have to talk to the real life, Stan.

Nathan Doyle 17:20 But then it's more zapping the sales. It's not really a holiday because, yeah, it's draining looking at yearlings. You're talking to people on a regular basis. And there is that bit of pressure at the sales, too, because you've got to buy that right horse. That's our future. That's our future. You could be an underbidder on one and end up a good horse. You probably should have went one more for. Here, here. Then end up.

Sean 17:44 Old underbidder on Barbie's sister. Yeah, who beat us? And the beaters on Saturday.

Nathan Doyle 17:50 Yeah, I haven't been through them stories yet. We've had a lot of luck buying yearlings, actually. We had great success. That's like 12 months ago we bought, in only two years, bought Rush Hour, able to go back to the Magic Moons. 12 months later, we went a half a million dollar race. And we had sort of willow in and the flow on effect. We've bought nice yearlings. And I think you learn to pick what the better quality horses, characteristics you like in a horse. And that sort of flows onto the sales. So it is pretty draining that you know you've got to pick the eyes out of that sale and buy that right horse. And I think you guys are buying quality animals, which are going to see us progress to that metropolitan grade. So I'm quite excited for the future for us and Kurrinda moving forward as a team. No, so are we.

Sean 18:45 And I think it's so, it's interesting when you speak to people. We all have things we like and don't like in horses, like yearlings. Like Nath might like something that I don't like. He might, I might like this. And Nath might go, oh no, I don't want to touch that. That's what makes this industry so good, isn't it? Like we all.

George 19:03 Well, otherwise everyone would be buying the same horse.

Sean 19:05 And there's no rules. There's no rules.

19:07 What he looks for in a yearling

Nathan Doyle 19:07 Yeah, no, I agree. Like I can't pick a horse that's close in the hocks. They've got to have their power there behind. That's where all their pushing power is. And they're a bit offset in the front or turn in, turn out. That's my problem then if I push forward and go too hard or break the horse down, you know what I mean? But you've got to have that power behind. And foremost, you've got to be an athlete. You've got to walk like an athlete. You've got to walk like a panther. You know what I mean? They can't be sloppy. And we've had good luck doing it so far. And we hope to head back to the Magic Moons and do it again next year.

Sean 19:46 So we are heading up to the Magics. I think we get there on the 5th. Yeah. And Nath and us will be on the ground. And we'll be finding, we're going to hopefully come away with what, at least a couple of nice ones, aren't we?

Nathan Doyle 20:00 Yeah, most definitely. And we're in it for a good time as well. I know you fellows are on the water, but if anyone wants to buy a chair and a horse, I'll have a beer with you. You want to back out the next day, I'll have a beer with you. I'll buy it. Boys will be at home in bed anyway. But no, we're in it for a good time as well. And that's the main thing, you know what I mean? You're in for the enjoyment from the start of their career. You get to name them up. You get to progress forward. And like you said, you're buying the right horses. You may have to pay a little bit more for the right horse, but I guarantee you'll get more success at the back end. Yeah.

Sean 20:33 And that's what we tell our owners. They're better. Instead of coming into a 10%, come into a 2.5% and just come into that next level horse. Because you might have 7.5% less, but you're going to have a better time.

20:46 Quality, soundness and five-year goals

Nathan Doyle 20:46 I agree. And statistics show a lot of better horses are from that 80 to 250 mark. A lot of those million dollar horses don't go on and be successful race horses, but you probably need to spend that 80,000 to get a bit of quality. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of horses in that bottom range that have got so many issues that not only they've got issues, once they come under pressure, it's going to create problems and disappointment. And if you buy that sort of better quality horse that moves like an athlete, it's got better confirmation, you've got more possibility of the horse staying sound and a better racing career as well.

Sean 21:28 You're just eliminating factors, aren't you? Yes.

Nathan Doyle 21:30 And that's probably something that a lot of people don't know, that you are eliminating factors by buying those correct horses. And they do cost a little bit more in the long run or initial outlay, but the initial outlay is probably the cheapest part. Yeah. The upkeep's, you know what I mean, it costs the same for a $30,000 horse as it does for a $300,000 horse. So buy that horse you want, that's probably the thing I can really tell people and pay in the hope of Sydney.

Sean 22:02 Doyle Racing, mate, five years. Ideally, where would you like to be?

George 22:07 I'd have done winning plenty of group ones for Perinda. Yeah.

Sean 22:11 Yeah, well, that'd be nice. No pressure.

Nathan Doyle 22:13 Well, it's fun to say, oh, they won't win this race. They were in that race. Years ago, myself and Malone, three horses going to sell some more punch around in Dubbo. But now we're just early on in the season and we're top 10 in the New South Wales Premiership. So it has sort of come in five years and I don't want to predict where we'll be in the next five years. As long as you strive to be better. But I think in every horse that works in the York Fable, you achieve it. That's what you can really do. The success is going to fall off in there. If it's the right thing and not cut the corners, that's when you'll get those better results moving forward. Yep.

22:57 Listener stories

Sean 22:57 Punting stories. We've had a few come in. Mate, do you want to share any good or bad ones or no comments?

Nathan Doyle 23:05 Norwegian Bliss. $5.50 in a Port Macquarie Maiden and $1.40.

Sean 23:10 That's all it has to say.

Nathan Doyle 23:14 Morgan sat three deep on it and still won me three.

Sean 23:19 And what, she won seven straight, did she? Seven straight. Yeah, proper horse.

George 23:24 Did he get a spray for a certain three deep? No, it won.

Nathan Doyle 23:26 You can't spray them when they win.

George 23:29 No, I mean mid-rest.

Nathan Doyle 23:30 It was actually, we had to spray them. Wow. Managed his Jerry Harvey's horses. And the price went up and they put up $5. The next minute we seen it was $2.20. Missed it. Missed it. Scratched. Went to Port. $5.50. On. Boys are on, we can run.

Sean 23:56 And what'd she jump had to get? $1.40. $1.40. And won quite easily?

Nathan Doyle 24:03 1v3, yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. No, we thought a bit of her. And she had issues, so she'd come to us with issues. But to be stakes place, win seven straight, it's very hard to do. But she was a good horse to us. And hopefully that flow on effect can really flow on from that. Yeah.

George 24:22 And you said, mate, obviously touching earlier there, about the quality of stock that we're sending you now. And that any of those horses that anyone should look out for coming up in the future?

24:33 Horses in Nathan's stable and the sign-off

Nathan Doyle 24:33 Oh, Boston Rocks is showing so much talent. Yeah.

George 24:37 Stevie Wonder could see him.

Nathan Doyle 24:38 Didn't he get beat in his first start? Yeah.

George 24:44 Too shy. Just free my time.

Nathan Doyle 24:52 I think the Harry Angel cult's a beautiful horse. He's a good moving horse. Harry Angel's done a terrific job. He won't be sort of, he'll probably fall five weeks off a trial. But what if I tell you too much? Where's our price go?

Sean 25:06 Yeah, exactly right. And Nathan has always been first in.

George 25:11 You didn't say his name. Exactly.

Sean 25:13 Nathan didn't say his name. Yeah.

Nathan Doyle 25:15 Oh, we're seven Harry Angels, I don't.

George 25:19 Boston, he'll be coming back soon. He tried really well.

Nathan Doyle 25:22 Tried very well. I feel the horse will go another level. Again, next preparation. That day we can probably ride him with cover. We need to be a lot more effective horse. But no, he's awesome. I think we're getting a nice result with him.

Sean 25:39 So guys, subscribe, follow, like, do whatever you do. Again, I don't know how this works. So George, can you tell people?

George 25:48 Yeah, subscribe, hit the like button, share it, tell your mates, tell everyone about it. And it's on all good platforms. Spotify, Amazon, YouTube. The lot you can see are ugly mugs on YouTube there. But thanks again to the Prince of Meriwetter for being so accommodating again.

Sean 26:05 And Nathan's time.

George 26:06 And Nathan for joining us. Mate, you're doing a great job. And we look forward to the future.

Nathan Doyle 26:10 And what did you say on camera? If you share this, you'll cover it to an up-percent share for someone next to you. Oh.

George 26:18 Read the fine print. No, thank you. It'll get me over that one somehow.

Sean 26:23 We'll be in touch. Just keep an eye out on our magic sources, guys. We're going to buy some cracking yearlings. And keep an eye out. Get involved. There's no better feeling in the world than winning an ice race. So get involved. And we'll get the next podcast out, what, in a couple of weeks? Yes. Yes.

George 26:41 We'll be out again. And we'll have plenty of stuff on socials about Magic Millions out and about hitting the ground. And yes, we'll let everyone know what we've managed to secure. And we're excited. It's a great catalog. That's got a beer.

Nathan Doyle 26:54 Thanks, mate.