Sean Driver on The Fill Up Podcast: Yearlings and Owners

0:00 So You Pence and the Kosciuszko

Fill Up Podcast host 0:00 Welcome back to The Fill Up Podcast. I'm with Dowsie this morning. We're out here at Kurrinda Bloodstock out in the Hunter Valley. We're joined by Sean Driver. How are you this morning, mate? Good, mate. Good. So, first of all, we'll kick off. Obviously, Sayu Pence was brilliant last start. How's she going and how's she prepping up towards the Kosciuszko tilt? Yeah, she's good. She pulled up well from a nice win there at Randwick. We went first up there, coming off a bleed.

Sean 0:30 She's got a bleed in a trial, an unexpected bleed. She's never sort of, never even coughed before, let alone had a bleed. So, obviously, we had to give her the time off there. We've come back. She's bolted in there at Randwick and we just decided to back off her. We gave her 10 days off at Matt's Farm and we'll go first up into the Kosciuszko. So, we've got Tim Clark booked for that race. He won on her last start. So, yeah, he's locked in and, yeah, she's in terrific order. She's probably moving the best she's ever moved and felt the best she's ever felt. So, she'll be there somewhere abouts, yeah.

1:13 Why So You Pence has raced so lightly

Fill Up Podcast host 1:13 Yeah, she's an exciting mare. I just wanted to ask, you don't see very often, obviously, she's just turned a seven-year-old and she's only had 10 starts. What are the reasons she's so lightly raced?

Sean 1:22 Yeah, where do you start? Look, she trialled up well and then we went to, I believe we went to Wagga, I think, maybe, and she got beat by a horse called the Prodigal Prince, I think. And it ended up being a Wagga Town Plate winner and a winner at Flemington at the straight as well. And then she showed us a bit of ability. Then we tipped her out after, I think she ran second there and then she won next start. And then so we tipped her out, came back and Matt just said she just didn't feel right. We tipped her back out just thinking it was feet. And then we sent her back down there and he said, no, I'm still not happy with her. So, we looked into it further and, yeah, she just needed a procedure done and she had two years off. And the owners were really patient and not one bit of whinging at all. They just backed us into rehabbing the horse. And then from there, you're sort of seeing what she's doing now. So, she had that two, two and a half years off and she's still a horse. Sort of forget about the age. She's nearly like a four-year-old with upside. That's the way we look at her because she's had no racing. So, every time we ask her to step out, she just improves. So, it's exciting. I think if we get through the Kosciuszko, I think we're waiting for black type. And I think she's up to group two, group three class. Yeah, probably at a minimum.

3:02 A typical week on the farm

Fill Up Podcast host 3:02 No, that's very exciting, mate. Just here, lovely farm here. And thank you again for bringing us along. What does an average day at the farm look like and an average day for you?

Sean 3:13 Depends what day it is. It's Monday and Tuesdays are generally always our busiest days, whether it's horse movements or feed order coming in or we've got farriers, chiros, all early in the week. So, and then from there, it's just a matter of irrigation, always setting up irrigation, checking horses and doing feet, checking fencing, checking paddocks. So, as the week goes on, it probably gets a little bit more relaxed from Wednesday, Thursday to Friday if nothing unexpected goes wrong. But, yeah, Mondays and Tuesdays are always probably our busiest days. Yep.

4:02 How Sean selects a yearling

Fill Up Podcast host 4:02 And you've got a lot of experience in, obviously, buying yearlings and buying horses. Because I guess for the average punter out there, they don't really understand what you're, I guess, looking at and looking for when you see these yearlings parade, I guess, for the first time. What's, I guess, a key area or aspect that you look for when buying a yearling?

Sean 4:25 Initially, when you get the catalogue, like I look at nicks and maidens. So, that means basically what stallion they're by and what mare they're out of. And also, we're good there? Yep. And also, just making sure that the crosses work. And does that broodmare sire nick well with the sire? Is the sire proven or not proven? And then I look at farm stats. How's the farm trending? What's the farm done in the last 12, 24, 36 months, five years? What sales do the farms target? Because they all have business models as well. So, I look at stats on where their best horses go, whether it be Melbourne, Queensland, Sydney, Adelaide. And I focus on the farms that are performing at the highest level for that sale. Yep. And then you're just limiting your risk. And then from there, you're going and looking at them as a physical. And then they've obviously got to tick that box. And then they've got to be vetted. So, then you might like 20 horses, but four of them might only pass the vetting. So, your list might start at 200 and you might end up with 15. It just naturally gets down to 15 or 20 or whatever it may be. And then you just hope that you're strong enough in the bidding process to secure it and that you don't do all that work for nothing. But sometimes you go home disappointed and you just move on to the next horse. But all you're trying to do for your investors is limiting their risk. And I think we're doing a good job of that. You're never going to get it perfect. That's why we're always going to be in a job, everyone. We're going to get it wrong. You're going to end up with slow horses. It's just a matter of placing them accordingly or getting what you can out of them and moving them into an environment that suits that horse more than what it's currently at. Because if it's not competitive at X, it might be competitive at Y. They've all got their attributes. Some just don't want to be racehorses and they're great at equestrian and dressage. And we also do that. We retire them and they all go to a good home. If they're not going to bring a good financial return when we sell them online, I just don't believe in taking the money. I'd rather retire the horse healthy and send it to someone that's going to look after it. Yeah.

6:56 Planning a horse's race program

Fill Up Podcast host 6:56 And touching on, as you said, placing horses, do you, I guess, get much say in that? Or I guess that depends on the trainer and how much involvement you have with that horse and with that certain horse? Yeah.

Sean 7:08 Like it depends on the trainer. But most of the time we sit down together and work out a plan. The average horses do their own thing. You sort of knock around every two weeks and you place them the best that you can with what you've got. The more progressive horses, obviously you need a plan in place. And the very good horses, we're probably 12 months already planned. So, you know, you already plan for six, eight to 12 months away. The very good ones. And you need to know by the day how long they're going to spell for, when they need to go back in and what weight they need to be. But, look, the limited ones, it's quite easy. They're easy to manage because there's always class one or class two, 1100s or 1400s around. So, and then you just warrant, you know, you're guided by barrier draws and jockeys and track conditions then. So, but, yeah, definitely the better ones. Yeah, they're all planned ahead of schedule.

8:14 Budgets at sales and a share in every horse

Fill Up Podcast host 8:14 Back to the sales, I've always had a question myself. Obviously, do you target specific sales in general? Because obviously everyone goes to the Magic Millions in January and all the big trainers are there, the big owners are there. And I've always thought maybe that a horse that's probably $150,000 might go for $200,000, $250,000 just because it's that big sale at the Gold Coast. Would you agree with that? And do you factor that kind of thing in when you are bidding on horses at Magic Millions with owners that you know have a lot of money?

Sean 8:43 I forget about the owners having money or no money. I don't factor that in. I just factor in, if we've got a list of 15, I put what I think is reasonable to pay for that horse. And we set a budget for each horse. You might go one or two bids more than that. But I don't generally, you can't take the piss because there's always another horse. So because we keep a share in every horse, if you guys are paying more for your share, well, so am I. So we keep a share in every horse. So that's the mentality that I've got. I guess that's what our owners love is we stay in every horse. So we're thinking what's best for us is best for you. And what's best for you is best for us sort of thing. That's the mentality. But you've got to draw a line. An expensive horse doesn't mean it's a fast horse. It's more often than I would be slow as ***. So the less you pay sometimes, the better. Like you see how many million dollar yearlings are on English Digital 18 months later and sell for 100 grand. That's just not our model. Good on them. And if they want to get there and feel good at a sale complex, that's great for them. But I'm about getting results on the track, not making money for the sales companies.

10:05 Private Harry and Hidden Motive

Fill Up Podcast host 10:05 Well, touching on getting results on the track, obviously the fastest horse you had was Private Harry. He's obviously been sold off to Yulong and Sejinho now. How is he? He's good.

Sean 10:13 I saw him last Saturday at the parade. He looks outstanding as well as Lucky Vega, Devil Knight and Alabama Express. They all look fantastic. He's a dude. He was always a dude. So he paraded beautifully. Great turnout. They did a great day. It was great food, good people. The weather was outstanding that day. Yeah, he's well. Yeah.

Fill Up Podcast host 10:40 And just touching on hidden motive as well. He's come back nicely. I thought his trial was okay. How do you think he'll go this preparation?

Sean 10:46 You said you didn't see it the other day.

Fill Up Podcast host 10:49 Let me be.

Sean 10:52 No, look, he's as good as we can have him. He's probably hit his mark. I think when you win a group two as a three-year-old, you're going to get that penalty throughout his three-year-old career, as we spoke about. But he's speaking to Mel at Doyle's, who rides him every day. She said he's feeling the best he's ever felt. He's as good as we can have him. Is that good enough? We'll find out. He's got to step up now into the four-year-old ranks. It's different gravy. They've got to step up now. So he's in open company. And yes, he'll be weighted better. That's the advantage. But he's got to step up. But I think his best place will be as possibly Magic Millions or a Quokka or a Supernova or like races. Even though he's a cult, I think we're just going to target big prize money races and just look after the owners. And hopefully winning those big prize money races will get him somewhere eventually to stand.

11:53 Why Private Harry went to Yulong

Fill Up Podcast host 11:53 I just want to go back to Private Harry for two seconds. You mentioned, we were talking before earlier about some of the broodmares that are booked with Private Harry. Do you want to give the listeners a bit of insight, Sam? Because there's some bloody good names in it.

Sean 12:09 Yeah, I'll probably leave that to Yulong just out of respect. Okay, yeah, fair enough. Just out of respect, I'll leave that to them. But I can be assured, like there's multiple group one-winning mares going to him. So from a commercial sense that he'll have every opportunity. There'll be no excuses. And he'll be supported heavily by Mr. Zhang and the family. So look, that's why we opted to go that way. And I'm not saying other farms do things wrongly or rightly. It's just I knew when Yulong approached us, the stock of mares that they have is nearly, it's just extraordinary. So if you don't get the outside support by stallions that he owns, he's going to support them with his own stallions, his own mares. So hypothetically saying, I know Devil Knight will be extremely popular. He's probably already booked out. But to say hypothetically, Devil Knight, no one wanted to book mares into him. Well, Mr. Zhang will probably send 60 group one-winning mares to him anyway. So that's the power that they have. So that was the biggest thing that I looked at is where is he going to be given every opportunity at stud? And it's important. You want him to, you know, the back end of his career was a failure due to soundness issues. And he was, at his best, he was something to watch. As any top equine athlete is, you want all of them to perform at their best because it's something to look at when they're going well. But he was disappointing his last few runs. So you want him to go there. And I think he'll throw really nice, precocious early two-year-olds.

14:05 Keeping owners informed

Fill Up Podcast host 14:05 Moving on to horse ownership, I just wanted to touch on how important is keeping owners informed on their horse's progression? Obviously, I own a couple with yourself. And I've, you know, Dousy and myself own a couple with some others. It's very few and far between. Sometimes you won't know if your horse is having a jump out until the day before. Or sometimes you'll get a gene test back. And it will tell you what distance you think your horse is going to be best over. Obviously, Kurrinda does it really well. And you get constant videos and feedback on how your horse is going. Whether it's here at your farm in the Hunter Valley or whether they're in work with their trainer. How much of an emphasis do you put on keeping owners updated with their horses that they've spent their hard earn on? That's massive.

Sean 14:45 I guess I'll throw one back at you. Like, what do you, how do you think we do? Because this isn't, you know, orchestrated. Like, what do you think? What's your experience been like?

Fill Up Podcast host 14:56 Well, it's definitely, and this is not blowing your trumpet, but it's definitely the best that I've experienced. Definitely had a few trainers where, honestly, it will be the week before. And it'll be, we're looking at going at a race, potentially. And then you won't know until the day before that you definitively are going to that race. I've also had altercations where my horse that I'm paying for is getting nominated for races, but I'm not aware about that. And I just think it doesn't matter how much you know about horses. Just that feeling of being involved and knowing that, obviously, you've spent your hard earned to get involved in the game. And you want to feel involved as well. And I know it's your job to look after them on the farm and inspect them, and it's the trainer's job to train them. And obviously, they know the best place for it to go. But I just think it's really good to be involved as much as you can. And by knowing where horses are going and getting updates on where your horse is going, you can learn from it as well. I've learned so much just by, we're going to this race, and this is why. We're going to not go to this race, and this is why. So in terms of Kurrinda Bloodstock, I think definitely up there from what I've seen. And it's definitely good for people, especially getting into the racing game, knowing where their horse is going.

16:09 Honest feedback when a horse is not good enough

Sean 16:09 Yeah, it's obviously not our role to educate or be derogatory along the way. But I think it's important to just notify them each week. I can guarantee owners will hear from us every single week, whether it's from us or the trainer. So I'm huge on that. Whether there's spelling and there's nothing to talk about, just let them know that the horse is safe and well. And you're right, whether it's jumping out or trialling or racing, this is what we're doing. This is why. This is why we're going to target this one. It's just important to give feedback. There's no such thing as poor, you know, any communication is good communication. But especially something I'll pride ourselves on is we're very honest. If the horses aren't good enough, I'll let the owners know. And whether they want to hear it or not, if they get offended by saying that the horse isn't good enough or it's weak or it didn't put in or you're disappointed with it, they're probably not the right owner for us anyway. I'd rather owners that respect that and that we're not sort of pissing in their pocket and taking money each week from them. Like, look guys, this isn't working. I think we need to send this horse to Queensland. Or, you know, this horse isn't worth sending to Queensland. Let's sell it now. I think it's important because my job is to get you guys to reinvest into another one. This one didn't work out, but let's try this one. As I said, touch base before, we are going to have slow ones. Everyone does. But it's just trying to limit that and move them on as quickly as you can. Like, I think I had a horse a few years ago had one start and it was genuinely no good. And I'm like, guys, we're out of this. Like, I'm not in the business to have slow horses. And some will get shocked by that. But you see enough data and you know enough to know that there's no improvement there. So it's really important to give the owners that feedback. Yeah, very good.

18:19 Nutrition, gut health and feed

Fill Up Podcast host 18:19 One last thing I want to touch on. And you gave us a bit of a rundown earlier this morning about the nutrition and the feed that you guys do here. Obviously, I guess it's very intense and excessive. But something that you are a firm believer in and something I found very, very interesting when you're explaining to us also. Do you want to give our listeners a bit of a quick little summary of that and how that works?

Sean 18:45 Yeah, it's probably boring to some. But we love it. We're so thorough with our nutrition and gut health with horses. And I learnt this a lot when I was playing rugby league full time for years because I had a leaky gut. And I had really poor gut health. And I was becoming so injury prone and lethargic. And my cortisol levels were shot and my adrenals were through the roof. And without boring too many people, like I just put it straight. When I fixed myself, I put it straight into the horses. I'm like, well, if I can get their gut as healthy as possible, which is connected to their brain, a happy horse is a fast horse. So we don't try and save money. It's very expensive in having a nutritionist and getting, you've seen the feed there. Our feed is never older than 14 days, which is so rare. Like the bags of food, they could be there for months and months and months. So that's just the way we operate. And our feed is matched to our pasture. And our pasture is designed and matched to our soil content beneath the pasture. So we're not perfect. We're always trying to improve. And hence, we're like, we're even looking at upgrading our irrigation system in the next week or two. And we've just drilled a bore in to get another a litre or two litres a second of water. And like there's constant improvements. But when you're in town, when you're going to town, that's when it matters. Like around when you're knocking about respectfully in the country areas, if the horses are good, like if they're just above average, they'll get the job done. But when you're going against the biggest of the best and the best with the unlimited budget, they are ticking these boxes. So you need to be able to compete. And that's where it changes. Like our metropolitan horses are getting everything they need. And going back to when you're sacking a horse or moving it on, I know the efforts and the measures we're going to, if they're not getting results with that, they're probably never going to. So it's easy for us to move a horse on because we're ticking every box. There's no shortcuts. So, yeah, that's basically what we do with the nutrition side of things. And supplements are in the feed, et cetera. And, yeah, it's probably boring for some, but we love it.

21:27 Young horses on the farm and in work

Fill Up Podcast host 21:27 Yeah, well, we're here now looking out to the farm. Obviously, you can see the horses that are spilling or having a freshen up. Out of your two- and three-year-olds you've got at the moment, whether they're in work or they're here, who are getting you excited?

Sean 21:39 It's a tough question. Yeah, look, you never know because race pressure is a beast, right? Like trainers and syndicators might *** to you and say this thing's a freak or let's aim for the slipper. It's just ridiculous. It's crazy talk. I laugh at the ads that are on Saturdays and we're aiming this at the Blue Dining. It's like you probably can't win at Geelong with it. It's just being honest. It's so ridiculous. And I understand we're here to sell a dream, but let's just be honest. As long as you're happy with them, let's let the horse do the talking. And if they step up, great. And if they don't, that's also fine. Just place them accordingly. But it's important not to pump people's tyres up. But going back to your question, I guess I've got to answer it. Like with what we're seeing, look, we've got a lot of nice, we've got so many nice ones. Like I really like a sort of state cult that we've got with Kieran. I've got a really nice Harry Angel and Home Affairs cults with Doyle. I've got a horse called The Local with Matt Dale. It's a three-year-old acrobat. It's a really nice horse. It'll race at Goulburn in a week and a half or so. Keegan Latham's booked there and I think it's a very nice horse. Probably nice enough that we could go straight to town, but we're not. So he'll probably start at $1.80, I'd say. Tim, I think he might have won a trial or two in Sydney already, this horse. And Tim Clark really liked him as well. I tried to get Tim down to ride it, but I don't know if he knows where Goulburn is. I did ask, though.

Fill Up Podcast host 23:31 Doesn't go that far in all of us.

Sean 23:33 His Mercedes doesn't know where to go. No, I did ask. Given the time of the year, the jockeys don't want to risk getting suspended or injured. We've got a nice filly down in Melbourne, Ayami, that you're involved in. She had a trial that was way below par the other day, but we'll just put a pen through that because it was wet. What else? Just stay active on our Facebook page and register and subscribe because we send out our weekly runners, and obviously the Kosciuszko, we've probably got your Super Norwest and So You Pence and Ready to Rush. Ready to Rush and Super need to step up, but So You Pence will most likely, if she's sound, she'll just walk straight into it. So some exciting races coming up and a couple with Gay and Adrian that are showing okay ability, but you just want them to do their thing. If I've missed any other horses, I apologise to the owners. It's not that I don't think they're any good. You just let them do their thing.

24:46 Quick questions: favourite horse, race and sires

Fill Up Podcast host 24:46 We'll just finish off with a couple of questions. Which horse is your farm favourite?

Sean 24:52 It was Half Crown, but he's no longer with us anymore, unfortunately. I'd probably say Galactic Star. He's a legend.

Fill Up Podcast host 25:02 What race would you like to win the most? Stradbroke. Really? Yeah. Touch on that a bit more. Why the Stradbroke?

Sean 25:08 We've probably got our best ever horse buried over there under a tree, Kirill Boy. He won 20 races for us and he was favourite in the Stradbroke one year. Brad Pengelly passed out on him because he wasted so much to ride him. He won multiple group races for us and ran third to Lonro three times. That's a race that I'd love to win. That's awesome. I love that.

Fill Up Podcast host 25:32 Obviously, you're a bloke who spends a lot of time at the sales. From all the horses you've inspected, what are your top three favourite size that you look out for? Capitalist.

Sean 25:46 I really like Capitalist. I'll buy one every single year. Not that I can probably afford one next year, but Home Affairs. I've got a couple now, but I'll probably afford another one. Got in early. Got in early. Home Affairs. He's just going to be a bomb. He's doing amazing things. Like your current as in at the sales?

Fill Up Podcast host 26:07 Just of all time, if you want, as well.

Sean 26:10 Of all time. Poor. Well, Lonro was my favourite. Yeah. That most favourite horse. Yeah. I don't know if he was my most favourite stallion, but God, he was a beautiful horse to look at. Yeah. I'd say So You Think. So You Think would be up there. Perfect. Last one.

Fill Up Podcast host 26:26 I know you don't punt, but I think you like a beer. What's your favourite pub?

Sean 26:31 I don't have a local pub. I rarely drink as well. I probably just bender.

Fill Up Podcast host 26:39 You're just all about the horses. They never let your hair down. Yeah.

Sean 26:42 As you know, I'm not a big punter, and I don't really. I won't ever drink during the week, but I could bender for three days. So I won't drink probably until the Magic Millions, as an example, in January. I won't have a drink.

Fill Up Podcast host 26:58 No, either me or Diasse.

Sean 27:01 So I'd say Grey Goose is my go-to. Yeah. Yeah. And pub, Loose Moose. Loose Moose. Yeah. All right. All right.

Fill Up Podcast host 27:11 Well, thanks for joining us today, mate. We really appreciate you having us out here at the farm. You've given us a little tour around this morning, showing us the horses that are here. We appreciate it, and good luck for the rest of the year. No, thanks for coming. We appreciate it. Cheers, mate.