Sean and Gen Driver on Running Kurrinda Behind the Scenes

0:00 Welcome and a first podcast together

Sean 0:00 Things like that can happen, but it's the way you manage them, it's the way you're transparent to the owners.

Gen 0:05 So having a really open mind and coming in to enjoy the experience, whatever that may look like for you.

Sean 0:10 And I remember, I think one of the owners sold out of the share because he was impatient and what have we got? Probably half a dozen two year olds that I think are probably better than our current crop that are racing. Welcome to episode 31 of Off N Racing. I've got my wife, Jen, with me, who basically runs a business behind the scenes, does basically everything for the business apart from anything to do with picking a horse and with a horse, to be honest. So we're here at, we're in my man cave actually at home, which is, which is nice. It's different. Um, and, uh, Jen, this is your first podcast.

Gen 0:56 It is. Um, thank you for having me. I'm normally not a guest. Um, but I think at the same time, it's good for people to see the other part of the business, the other side of the business, the things we deal with together in running it as well.

1:09 What a day looks like for Gen

Sean 1:09 So Jen, we sit here, um, so the listeners and viewers, uh, can find out, I guess, what's your day to day look like? What's the most time consuming and, um, I guess, what's the most challenging and difficult, et cetera?

Gen 1:28 There's so many facets to what we do now. Um, and I think that people don't necessarily understand. It's probably interesting for them to also understand how much goes on behind the scenes. Um, from the minute we choose a horse, if I can go back to the very start, say for example, we're at a sale. There's so much involved by way of regulation of our business. Um, Sean will select a horse. We have to ensure it. We have to prepare documentation for that horse. Uh, we provide people with that documentation so that they're fully informed. So that's only one very small aspect of what we do. And then the day to day management of what we do in terms of responding to owners, responding to inquiries, assisting people when they want to buy a share, what they may be looking for, answering all the questions they may have. And then there's also the day to day management and communication with our existing owner database. Now we're up to well and truly what, well over mid sixties or something like that. In terms of horses. And that involves a lot of owners. So not only do we have this sales and the share purchases that may be happening. It's also attending to the day to day queries from those owners, the management of the horses, um, race days coming up, queries people may have about their horse and what may be happening. So there's multiple different facets of what we do. And that's only part of what I do. Sean is then managing the farm, what may be going on out there, horses that are racing. And, and that's a completely different side to what you do as well. We sort of don't really enter into each other's domain, so to speak.

Sean 3:04 No, yours is above my pay grade. And, um, so like day to day fillers in, like, what are you, what are you normally doing during the day?

3:13 Share sales and the owner database

Gen 3:13 Well, there's probably two main parts. A, it's selling shares to prospective owners and what they may be interested in. Um, at the moment we have upwards of around seven or eight horses with shares remaining. So you get a lot of different queries from prospective owners as well as our existing database.

Sean 3:30 Um, I think we bought what eight, eight, I think this year and three are sold. So we've sort of got five remaining, but at the moment, like the Harry angels say 20%, like there's probably three or four that have got minimum.

Gen 3:45 Limited shares remaining. So you're dealing with prospective owners and our existing database that may be looking at shares. Um, and then the larger part of what I just referred to before is managing. The horses we have in our system and responding to owners. There's multiple different queries you may be asked in any one day. Um, and we do our best to facilitate that. We largely use Prism as our main communication portal, but obviously that will only provide your standard day-to-day updates for horses and people will necessarily have direct questions for me. Um, sometimes I can answer those and other times I have to refer to Sean if it's specifically horse related. But I think communication with our owners in one way or another takes up the largest part of what we do on a day-to-day basis.

Sean 4:29 And then you've got all the admin side of things.

Gen 4:31 That's exactly right. All of the administration. So if people are coming into a horse for the first time, um, they're provided with what's called a product disclosure statement. So that outlines everything that they're about to come into by way of the share, what might be included for the share, what can happen throughout the horse's career. So different things that may occur. It tries to answer all of those questions and foreseeable questions that people may have. Um, and then there's also just the everyday matters that occur in terms of the administration of a horse. So there is a lot involved and we do our best to make it as easy and as enjoyable for people as possible.

5:07 Sean's side: the farm, the sales and rehab

Sean 5:07 Yep. And for myself, basically, um, I basically just manage the farm or Shane manages the farm. He's our farm manager. He lives at the farm. So we've got 24 hour security. He lives in the house there. And, um, so it's fantastic, uh, to have Shane. He's, he's absolutely priceless to have there. And, um, it's, uh, I never take advantage of the situation that, um, he gives us. And I guess me also, it allows me to go to the sales, just this podcast will come out and I've already been to the Queensland March sale. Um, I leave on the 10th. So, um, and I'll be there all week and my job is basically just managing, uh, not only purchasing or selecting the horse with either the trainers or the trainers, bloodstock agents. We all liaise together and make sure everyone's happy. But, um, it's also getting the horse home, getting it into the system, how long they need to be home, what injuries I need to rehab, how I'm rehabbing them, uh, how I'm liaising with multiple vets. Uh, nutritionist, uh, nutrition, pasture, farm improvements. Um, my job's harder, hey, by the sounds of it.

Gen 6:26 Well, you have more hands on issues that arise. Mine can be managed sometimes with the benefit of time. You don't always have that.

6:35 Putting out fires each morning

Sean 6:35 Yeah. And like, um, each morning is putting out fires. So like, um, horses, you might have 30 to 40 horses spelling and they're, you know, animals are going, to do animal things and that they might have grazes or cuts or swelling or, you know, lameness or something going on. And, um, and then I'm dealing with Luke Morgan, our breaker, uh, communicating through there, how they're going, how they're not going. Then multiple trainers, uh, race nominations, jockeys, jockey selections for certain horses, what suits what. And, um, there's so much that goes on, but all in all, I think my job's way more important.

7:16 What sets Kurrinda apart

Gen 7:16 But I think too, to that, to that point, we're often asked, or I'm often asked very commonly by prospective shareholders, not so much the existing database, cause they know what goes on. But to that very point, we're often asked what sets you apart. Um, how do you manage the horse? What goes on? I think Sean has just answered that. There is simply so much that happens. Um, and we really feel like we do our absolute best in that regard.

Sean 7:41 Um, our best, but always improve and learn. And I'm always looking for one. Like basically what Jen does is so much more important to the business compared to what I do. Jen runs the business. I'm just behind the scenes controlling the horses. So I basically have no involvement in the business aspect and, and what goes on basically in the office. So, um, that if it's horse related, obviously that's me, but, um, yeah, look, it's, we try our best. We're willing to always, you can never learn. You can never know everything. You always have to learn. There's always something to learn. Uh, whether it's diets, pasture, soil content, agronomists, nutritionists, I'm constantly trying to find new ways and new means to, uh, compete. Because when you are in town, it's all well and good, um, with all due respective, where at Moruya or Goulburn or, uh, Albury or, you know, Hawkesbury. But when you're going to Rosehill, Randwick, and you're racing in the bigger races, you're coming up against the, the best. You're against the best, the biggest, the most powerful. And with an unlimited resource, unlimited financial resource and et cetera, et cetera. So we, if we're not ticking our one percenters, we can't compete. So, um.

Gen 9:04 And I think we say quite openly, Sean does his absolute best to make the best selections possible. And that's been proven with some of the more recent success we've had. And we will do everything we can to find those horses. The reality is not every horse will be a group winner. That's, that's statistically just how it is. But as long as we've done our best to manage that horse and give our owners a great experience, that's, that's ultimately what will have repeat business for us. And I think we do that well.

9:32 Disappointment and the same system for every horse

Sean 9:32 There'll be disappointment guys. Like, yeah, trust me, we stay in every horse. Like, um, I don't want to be in a slow horse and if we're in a slow horse, trust me, I'm, I'm just as disappointed, if not more, because I chose the bloody thing. And, um, they go through, they all, whether it's a private Harry or all due respect, a son of Eureka, they all go through the same system, have the same nutrition, have the same education. Um.

Gen 9:58 They've been through the same selection. Yeah.

10:00 Vets and trust within the team

Sean 10:00 Like the same vetting. We use the same vet. Um, even our, our vets, um, who I won't mention, but like the trust that you, I have to have with our main vet is huge. Like it's, they're part of our team. Like I had our vet out at our farm this morning for three or four hours going through horses. And, um, you know, he tells me whether a horse is ready to go or not. And, and I don't, you don't even, um, question their judgment. It's the trust is there. Yep. No worries. It needs three more weeks. This needs 12 more weeks. That needs six months. And, and that happened this morning. It's like, this horse needs six more months. I'm like, oh yeah. But there's not even a question. It's like that. Yep. That is what it is. The systems are in place. The trust is there. It's, it's work. It has worked. It works. You don't change what's not broken. And, uh, it just is what it is. Um, what I say to the owners, you know, don't buy two 10% shares, you know, buy four, 5% shares, throw many darts and. You know, you'll have a disappointing horse, but spread your risk. Invest in numerous horses. You don't have to have a 20% share. I'd rather you have, you know, four, 5% shares. I don't know. That's not my.

Gen 11:16 And in differing price points too, uh, price doesn't, I guess it is dictating more and more where we're going in terms of horses and horse selection. But there's no rules. You can buy at different price points and don't put all your eggs in one basket. More often than not, Sean and I will discourage people from taking 10 or 20%. Like Sean said, we will say, spread your risk and have four, two and a half percent shares instead of putting all your eggs in one basket for that reason. Um, we're more than likely to, to tell people to, to purchase in that manner. Yeah, a hundred percent.

11:48 Injuries and honesty with owners

Sean 11:48 And, um, things go wrong. It's, it's not a matter of, um, if a horse will get injured, it's when. It's as simple as that. They're athletes. They're running at 60 Ks an hour worth it. You know, they're weighing half a ton. So, and the better ones are harder to keep sound because they're faster. So the slower ones, unfortunately, just stay sound and, uh, cause they're running slower. It's as simple as that. So, um, horses that try and horses that are fast will unfortunately take a lot more care and management. And that's just how it is. So you, you work so hard to find the champions and find the good horses, but you're working twice as hard behind the scenes to keep that good horse on the track on a Saturday. Like it's, it's such a seesaw battle for not only, or mainly the trainer and their vet, but also myself at home. Like how am I, like Austin rocks is an example. Like, um, I'm just being honest. He had a setback. He was one of the, he was in the market for the Oakley plate and yet sucks. Um, that was Matty Dale ringing me just then. It's, um, like it's, it's as a team, you get together and you've, you've got a carpet on the chin and it's not a major setback at the moment. Um, he's, he's fine. And, but we nearly lost him. Yeah. Right. Like he had to have emergency colic surgery. Never ever had a lame day in his life. He's in career peak form. And then I've got to tell the owners that, Hey guys, he's on a truck. Um, where a chance of losing him tonight is emergency. Like things like that can happen, but it's the way you manage them. It's the way you're transparent to the owners. You've got to be honest, whether it's good, bad, ugly, average, whatever it is, be honest. Yeah. If you're honest, you don't have to remember your lies. You don't have to be constantly chase your tail and try and smooth things over. I just think 95% of our owners, they love the honesty. Yeah.

13:46 Advice for new owners: an open mind and patience

Gen 13:46 And I think they're the biggest things for people that may have not been in horse ownership before, even people that have a share and they may not know as much as other people that have been in the industry for a long period of time. My, my biggest pieces of information would be have an completely open mind that we can't control what's going to happen. Um, we can't control the trajectory a horse is going to go on. You simply cannot. So having a really open mind and coming in to enjoy the experience, whatever that may look like for you. And also being patient is probably the second biggest piece of advice. You have to be patient. They are an elite athlete. Like Sean said, so much can happen. You've got to be patient. You've got to go along for that ride with them. Um, people will often ask what, what, what expectations do you have for a yearling or what, what races may it be aimed at? And I, we simply say the horse will tell us that is the best piece of information you can, you can tell somebody. You can't control the manner in which a horse is going to proceed.

14:46 Why some young horses need more time

Sean 14:46 No, you just tell them. And we all want the, the precocious Sheikis or Hedrix or Warwovens or Paradoxians. And we, we all want to be a part of those, but some horses just don't, you know, don't stand up that early. And, um, I've got probably, what have we got? Probably half a dozen two year olds that I think are probably better than our current crop that are racing. But they're just not, uh, as much as they are precocious, once, once you dial the pressure and you screw them down, they're telling you, hey, I need, I just need that one more break. And, um, so you've just got to be patient and the results will come. Private Harry didn't race until he was three and a half years old. So that's, as an example there. And, um, that's one of the best examples. He had knee surgery as a two year old. Uh, wasn't, it wasn't bad surgery, but he had knee surgery in both knees. We had to give him time. We had to give him nine weeks out. He came back. And I remember, I think one of the owners sold out of the shed because he was impatient and I guarantee he wishes he didn't now. So like, it's all about being patient and.

15:58 Setting realistic expectations early

Gen 15:58 And also to that end, like not taking the story of other horses and thinking that's going to be your own. They're, they're so, yeah, they're so individual. That's a good point. Um, I think a lot of people are sold a story of what a horse racing experience should look like. And we're the first to say, look, we're buying them with the intention of a two year old. Whether they are is up to the horse. Some are. Some are, some are not. That's simply the way it is. Um, and I think you're much better to set those expectations early as opposed to selling a story that, look, they might be a sheikian. And it might all go that way, but nine times out of 10, something else will happen or throw itself up that we cannot control.

Sean 16:37 So you think Philly, we just purchased a dazed fire farm. Yeah. It's clearly going to be a three year old. Yeah. It's not early. So you've got to be transparent. It's not going to race as a two. And if it does, it'll be the last month of a two year old, like Queens Rhapsody. It's, they're not two year olds. Um, if you want a precocious horse, sorry, that's not for you. Yeah. Um, you've just got to put people into the right. Yeah.

Gen 16:57 And I think that's really important is we will say to, or I will say to people, cause I'm more, more often than not having those conversations. What is it that you actually want? What are you interested in? Understanding that a three year old is a lot different in terms of time than a two year old. And if it's a two year old, you may be paying for that accordingly. There's, there's so many questions. And I think the more questions we ask, the less disappointment people have, or they may have been disappointed before because it took in their mind too long. But when we ask those questions, it hasn't really taken too long. That was always the way the horse was going to proceed. Um, so asking those questions is important as well. And just explaining the reality of what horse racing is. Yeah. There's so many different parts.

17:40 Regulation and looking at syndicators

Sean 17:40 In my opinion, like, I don't know what you said, but in my opinion, there's, um, A, we're regulated. You're, I highly suggest to look at syndicators. Um, it doesn't have to be with us. Just look at syndicators, you know, as a whole. And, uh, I think regulation is key. Um, but that's that one. And then B, there's no, in my opinion, there's no such thing as value for money in this industry. I think you get what you pay for. It's probably life. Um, if you're paying $400,000 for a horse or $10,000 for a horse, all I'll say is there's a reason why. Um, whether it be an x-ray issue, whether it be stallion, mare, physical, whatever it may be. It's just, it's a fact. So, um, you get what you pay for. That's just my opinion. Yeah.

Gen 18:25 And, and a lot of times I'll be talking to a prospective owner. They might be telling me they're looking at three different horses available. And nearly every occasion you've inspected all three that are not even ours, you have looked at them. Um, and you can, you can tell me what your thoughts may have been. And there's, there's always a reason why we haven't personally selected that horse. Yeah.

Sean 18:45 Or I might say, yeah, I did like it, but there's just that little thing in there or yeah. Yeah. Um, and you can only give people that feedback too. Yeah.

18:54 Prospective owners weighing their options

Gen 18:54 Um, but I think that that's probably another difficult thing for us to overcome is that people are often very dictated by price. Like anything, if there is a cheaper option available, um, unless you've had experience previously, sometimes people will lean towards a cheaper option or what they may foresee to be a cheaper option. For example, they may say to me, I can get 20% in that Philly as opposed to two and a half in yours. Again, it's a completely individual decision, but like we said to a little earlier, I would much prefer for you to have a two and a half percent share in a Philly with great residual value. That's lower risk than taking 20% of a Philly for a third of the price. You've still, I still say to people too, all the time, still remember after the initial share investment, 20% just to use a number for ongoings is very expensive. to maintain over the course of a horse's career. Um, that becomes a really expensive exercise. The initial investment may not be that expensive, but it's the ongoings you've got to put into that product. Like anything.

Sean 19:56 All costs are safe to feed them. That's low one. Like I said, I'd rather have two and a half percent of a very, very good horse than 20% of a pretty average horse.

Gen 20:14 At a minute… At a minute…