Morgan Turinui and Cameron Shepherd on Rugby and Racing

0:00 Two former Wallabies join the podcast

Steve 0:00 Episode 27 of Off N Racing, Steve from Kurrinda Bloodstock. I'm really pleased to have Cameron Shepard, Morgan, Tiranoi, both former Wallabies, and now broadcast for Stan. Thanks so much.

Guest 2 0:14 Thanks for having us.

Guest 1 0:15 So we don't want to talk rugby, we're only here to talk horse racing, alright? That's our whole day's rugby.

Guest 2 0:19 I'm not going to say a huge amount then.

Steve 0:21 A bit of rugby, a bit of horse racing, but you guys film your own show, I think you've just done it, Rugby Heaven, that's on Stan. I guess the, so we're just early May, probably the biggest thing last few days is Les Kiss appointed as Wallabies coach.

0:38 Les Kiss as Wallabies coach

Guest 2 0:38 Yeah, well look, the interesting thing about Les Kiss is Morgz and I were both part of the Waratahs when he was there as an assistant coach. So we really got to see him probably at the start of his coaching journey, Morgz you'd say. And you're just not going to meet someone that's more engaged with a group, more engaged in what they do, more passionate about what they do. And taking everything else aside of him as a coach and as a human being, the number one thing you're going to get from Les Kiss every day of the week is just a passion for what he's involved in. And I think as far as that's concerned, the appointment they've made through Les is a fantastic one. Second to that, he's got a great relationship with the current coach, Joe Schmidt. So the transition period is going to be a lot better than what we've experienced in previous years, Morgz.

Guest 1 1:30 Yeah, well Shep's probably said the two big salient things, the relationship with the environment that's there at the moment. Of course Joe Schmidt, as part of the announcement, will extend so that Les Kiss can focus on the Queensland Reds job. So Les will continue on right through next year's 2026 Super Rugby. Joe Schmidt will coach the first three or so tests in July, then Les Kiss will take over. So it just gives a nice long runway. Of course Schmidt was already confirmed to go through to most of the end of this year. So Schmidt and Les Kiss coach similar ways of playing the game. Not exactly the same, but similar enough that the great thing in Australian rugby this time will be that a guy comes in who's going to build on his predecessor. We've had lots of coaches come in, rip everything to shreds and start again from zero.

Steve 2:10 It's often the mantra, isn't it? Yeah.

Guest 1 2:12 Yeah, so mate, we've had everything from changing what colours the teams wear, rules around what you wear to lunch, let alone the way the team plays. So the fact that it's a little bit of continuity I think will be a positive. And also the quality of the guy as a human being, as a coach, as a leader of men, as a guy who's a little bit new agey in that he can connect with lots of different people. Lots of our coaches have always been teachers or something like that around pedagogy. He's a smart coach who's coached for 30 years, but he's also very good, as Shep, sort of inferred at connecting with people, which is important these days.

Steve 2:45 Do you think that dual code aspect helps at all? He was a rugby league player before he was involved in union?

Guest 1 2:52 I think probably the fact that you can tell that he was brave enough to try something different. He was a defence coach at the Waratahs. He was a winger. So when he was our defence coach, we weren't sure how good a tackler he was going to be. But excellent coach. So what I love is that his whole life he's gotten out of his comfort zone. He was a league player, played I think three state of origin matches, three tests for the Kangaroos, played with the all-time greats of the game, the Lewises and Miles and all those guys, right? Then he goes and coaches, say, the Springboks, for example, in rugby union. It was one of his first sort of forays into rugby. Comes back to the Waratahs. Then he challenges himself by going overseas. Turns from an assistant to a head coach. Runs programs in Europe. Yeah. Comes back. And I love the sort of varied journey. Yeah.

Guest 2 3:34 With the Irish team as an assistant coach when Joe Schmidt was the coach. So that's where they first met. So that relationship is long. I think it's also important. A lot of your listeners and viewers probably don't know, but Joe Schmidt has been coaching for a long time. He's a New Zealander originally. Yeah. Has a young son that's not well. I'll leave it at that. And has had to travel around the world as Joe has travelled around the world. So the family, his wife and his wife had to make a huge amount of sacrifices. And it hasn't been easy. So even though he hasn't been here for a long period of time, he's now decided it's his time to now make the sacrifices for his family. And that's why we're losing Joe. But I think he even openly said the other day that, you know, if Les ever has any questions, once this is all over, he can pick up the phone and call me any time. Which I just thought is a really nice ending to what will be a nice changeover. Well, it's great context.

Steve 4:27 I didn't know all of that. Shep's a couple of years above me at school. The only guy I ever knew that could slam dunk when he was 13. Yeah. And Morgz, you went to rival schools. And Year 12, your winger scored three tries because it was my brother-in-law, Toronto Burnett, that you drew in three times in a row. But I watched that up on the hill. Artie Beetson was probably five metres away. Did you know Artie well?

Guest 1 4:59 Yeah, just from being around the place. There was obviously being Roosters and Rugby Union in our area. It's good to be a little battler from Waverley College here with two toffee-nosed Barker boys. Thanks for inviting me. I don't like coming over this side of the bridge. You know that ***. Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, it was the community. So lots of guys played league. My under-10s, Ramwick Union team was Braith and Asser at 10, Renny Matui at 12. It was both codes. So those sorts of guys were always around. So especially then, the league-union thing was very much excitement for both codes. Yep.

5:31 Waratahs and Reds careers

Steve 5:31 65 games for Waratahs, 11 for the Reds. I sort of forgot about that. What took you up there?

Guest 1 5:39 Eddie Jones was going to be the coach up there. So he was the guy that I talked to. It was just something different. I'd always been Waratahs. I'd always grown up. New South Wales was my team. I think it was a time at the end of that 07 World Cup, that 07 season, to try something different. So three years at the Reds, very much a rebuild. Saw the beginning of the McKenzie area. So it was exciting. It was different, always different up there. You don't understand New South Wales versus Queensland. I know Origin series is coming, men and women at the moment. You don't understand it until you have the Queensland point of view. I think that was actually eye-opening. An understanding of it just means more to them. No matter what we say about it. We're passionate about being blues and New South Welshman or whatever, but it's just different for them up there.

6:20 Favourite Wallabies moments and debuts

Steve 6:20 And 20 test matches for the Wallabies, could you isolate one favourite moment or something you've not talked about recently?

Guest 1 6:27 I think the big one is always your debut or finding out you're going to make your debut. You know, your play super rugby ship was the same, came in as a younger player a couple of years after me. And especially then, three super rugby teams, like you're just looking around, absolute greats of the game. When I came through, the guys that were World Cup winners were still there. They just won a Lions series.

Guest 2 6:46 If I remember correctly as well, there was lots of injuries, like Mortlock was injured, a few others. Because it was you and Steve Kefu at 12-13, wasn't it? You were both on debut, same game, outside Bernie Larkin. And, yeah, that must have been incredible.

Guest 1 6:59 Yeah, that's it. You've got Greg and Larkin and you're there and you're singing an anthem. We were in Perth playing Ireland in the first test of the year. So 2003, I was still under-21s. I was eligible to go under-21s. I didn't go to stay back and play test footy. So I think it's a special moment that everyone remembers, finding out, you know, singing the first anthem, playing. We got a win, which was great. So I think that will always be a special moment.

7:24 Why the Australian second tier did not work

Steve 7:24 And Sunshine Coast, Stingrays, I was mixed up. We were chatting about this before. I thought that might have been that ARC. And really sort of the open question is that ARC, you know, what we tried to replicate of the MPC in NZ. Why didn't it work?

Guest 2 7:38 I think Australian rugby has always been desperate to create that second tier. We've always thought the gap between club rugby and super rugby has been too vast. And through that, we're losing talent. We're also not preparing people to perform at that next level because the level below isn't good enough. However, Morgz will definitely speak better to this than I will from his experience with Randwick recently. But I think that gap is well and truly closed. We could still use it. But I just feel it was an extra step that was certainly costing Australian rugby union a lot of money. But secondly, just making it more complicated maybe than it needed to be. I personally have felt that an evolution of the current club competition in New South Wales and the other states is probably what's needed more than creating a new competition. Yep. We've got great foundations with some of the clubs in New South Wales and Brisbane specifically, but also in the other states now where if that could be expanded and a bit more attention and money was put into it, that would grow and create its own second tier, if you know what I'm saying. And so that's probably why it failed. It just all got a bit much and Rugby Australia just didn't have the ability to manage it.

Steve 8:55 So could – and I know this is a previous concept, but could you elevate in Eastwood and Randwick some of those top Brisbane clubs and try and sort of mash them together?

Guest 1 9:04 I think that's probably the best of an imperfect solution. I think rugby's issue in Australia is that we always compare ourselves to two of the best national domestic tribal competitions in the world. Yep. AFL, NRL. And we're not like AFL or NRL. Yep. We've always thought we've got to have a national comp. We've got to have this tier that feeds into our super rugby teams. And it's just not really who we are. We're an international game. We should celebrate the internationality of it. And that's where our focus is. And so that's, I think, been the danger there. And the big point that Shep made is not enough people turned up to the games. Not enough people watched it on TV. Not enough people wanted to sponsor it. It just cost too much money. Yep. We couldn't afford to bear the losses over a long period of time. In terms of more rugby for our younger players, it was great. It was a really good brand of rugby. It meant more footy. But if we want to solve that problem, if we're desperate for that tier, then there's no other solution really than a national club-based domestic comp. Now, how you do it without either ruining the ones who miss out or how you have promotion relegation or different levels or whatever it is, how do you get a team out of South Australia or whatever, those are the big questions we haven't been able to answer.

Steve 10:09 And so I played rugby for the Newcastle University Seahorses. And that was a 12-team competition. And now with the Wildfires, it's a six-team competition. So it just wrecked that sort of local comp. So that's exactly what you say. It sort of cannibalises, you know, Rob Peter to pay Paul type thing. But Shep's 18 matches for the Waratahs, 60 for Western Force. You were an inaugural member? I was. Yeah.

Guest 2 10:36 Went over there at the end of 05. Took the cash. You did.

Guest 1 10:39 You left me, didn't you? Wasn't much. Did you get it all?

Guest 2 10:44 Well, that's another story, isn't it? We need another podcast for that.

10:47 Nine Tests and a first run-on at Ellis Park

Steve 10:47 Nine matches for the Wallabies must be a great thrill.

Guest 2 10:51 Oh, mate, incredible. As Morg said, it's never enough. You always want more. I certainly cherish every appearance I had. Unfortunately, towards the end, I had a really, really nasty injury that sort of pushed me out of the squad for about two years. And unfortunately, I don't think I ever played again after that. I sat on the bench for one game and it was tough. But from a positive standpoint, some incredible experiences. I think probably the biggest was my first run on. I started my first few tests coming off the bench. But my first run on was in South Africa, in Johannesburg, the scene of the 1995 World Cup. I'm forgetting the name of the stadium. Morg's jumping around, I mean. Ellis Park. Ellis Park. It is just incredible. When the bus comes down the road towards, there's a university on the left and there's big signs out the front that says no guns. Like a gun with the red line through it. And you get out and there's passionate South African fans. You know, Morg's just talking about state of origin and what that feels like. I guarantee you it's nothing compared to when an international team comes to play the Springboks. They are just so passionate about them and the energy and the emotion that follows was huge. So I get into the change rooms and the walk down to Ellis Park is this long ramp tunnel that just seems to go on for days. And you've got plenty of time to think about what you're going to feel when you get out there. And when you get down there, it's almost like that scene in Gladiator, you know, when Maximus first walks into the arena and it's just like a bombardment of intensity. And that's what it was like for me. And, yeah, I will never, ever forget that experience in that game. Unfortunately, we couldn't come away with the win. And I thought we were good enough that day, but that was a really special one for me.

12:54 The 2006 Commonwealth Games in Melbourne

Steve 12:54 And it was Commonwealth Games? Yeah. Yeah. When Joe Rocathoka ran it around.

Guest 2 13:00 Well, a lot of people ran around me at the Commonwealth Games.

Guest 1 13:02 It's a big club that one that he ran around.

Guest 2 13:05 Look, we tried our best. I was… Was it 06 in Melbourne? I was 06, yeah. The reason I got selected for that was John Mitchell decided to lead me out of the team. And he put me on the bench for the first forced game ever against the Brumbies. And that actually made me eligible for selection. If I'd started, I would have never gone because Scott Favour was the one pick. So I ended up getting to go there. The great Sean Mackay was with us there. Matt Gitto was part of that team. Chris Latham came down and played. We were blessed, but it took its toll. A lot of the boys got injured by the end of the… We made the bronze medal game. Towards the end of that game, we were in it. We had a chance for a medal. There was a sickening clash between Scott Favour and one of the Fijians where he was convulsing on the ground. His wife actually jumped the fence and security had to run and tackle her because they thought she was coming on to do something. Anyway, we ended up finishing that game with only six people and we finished fourth. But again, you know, you talk about experiences. You're cutting around the athlete's village and walking into the food hall and you've got a Macca's and a KFC and every type of food in there that you want.

Guest 1 14:13 You have Lottie there too. That's dangerous.

Guest 2 14:15 You don't want to send footy players into a place like that. And it's open 24 hours a day. You can literally go there whenever you want and eat whatever food you want. It's the best place on earth. So we had a lot of fun for the week we were down there. We didn't get the result we wanted, but I feel very lucky that I was part of that.

14:30 Sevens at the Olympics and women's rugby

Steve 14:30 But sevens is an Olympic sport now since 2016. I feel it really does have a proper spot on the world stage because there's realistically 16, 20 teams that are competitive, like countries. Oh.

Guest 1 14:43 I think we saw it in Paris. I was lucky enough to be at the Olympics last year. And Paris, they had a morning ticketed crowd and an afternoon. So there was 120-odd thousand people watched the sevens in one day, two sittings of it. Absolutely packed it out. Obviously the men, the French men team won it in Paris, which is pretty cool. And I just think it's there to stay. It'll be even bigger again in LA in 2028. I think that'll be absolutely huge. And then, of course, Brisbane. Can't wait to have a home Olympics with the sevens there. We know the women will be pretty much always up there because of the quality footballs we bring. I still remember, you know, 2016, sitting with my two daughters, I think it was seven and eight at the time. It was sort of morning before school watching that gold medal performance. And that women's team have been outstanding for a decade since. So I think sevens definitely is a big part of it. And, of course, it's the driver behind what women's rugby is starting to become.

Steve 15:34 And I'm a father of two daughters. My six-year-old is just amazed that her team is called, her soccer team, the Magic, Broadmeadow Magic. But I'm told, sort of preparing for this this morning, Morgz, that your daughter's a pretty talented footy player herself.

Guest 1 15:53 Yeah, we've got a couple of them. Both they play a bit of sevens and 15s. So just – it's funny, all four of mine end up in rugby. We've travelled the world. The oldest played soccer for a bit. Then we were in Melbourne. And one of them – they all played a bit of footy AFL rules as well. And somehow they've all come back to rugby, which was not – it's not my intent or pressure. It would be easy for me if they didn't play rugby really. But they all love the game. They all play for Randwick, the Randwick Women's Club. Yep. The junior one's called the Randwick Magic. So you can tell your daughter she'd come down and join the other Magic when she's a bit older. And so, yeah, it's – the positive of it is that my kids have found a sport that I know will look after them. And if we're focusing on girls, there's so many pathways to success. Our 15s Wallaroos will go to a World Cup in the UK later this year. They play their first test match as we record this weekend against Fiji in Fiji. So there's a 15s pathway. And the Australian women's sevens are probably the best prepared and looked after professional footy team in the country. So it's all there for them. Great.

16:52 The British and Irish Lions tour

Steve 16:52 So the men's side, British Lions kicks off in June. Huge. Huge.

Guest 2 16:58 To put it in perspective for anyone that doesn't truly understand it, British and Irish Lions is a combination of England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland. And they only tour to Australia every 12 years. So if you put that in perspective compared to a soccer World Cup or an Olympics or something like that. It's gone. It's enormous. In 01, when they came here, the Wallabies were lucky enough to beat them in 2013. You know, a few things didn't go our way. We unfortunately lost the series. So this will be a big one. And considering the state of the game in Australia at the moment, some huge opportunities for the game to really put itself back on the map, I think. Which is exciting. And contrary to popular belief, we've got some incredible talent in rugby union at the moment. For whatever reason, and there's a lot of things you could put it down to. Some people have decided to turn around and watch other things. And that's what Australian sport's all about. There's so many things you can watch. You know, horse racing's one of them. Motor sports, rugby league, rugby AFL, whatever, basketball. So people have turned around, but I'm telling you, some of the talent we're watching run around for Australia at the moment is some of the best I've seen in a really long time. We're going to put out a fantastic team and squad to take on the Lions. And I think looking at how great those games are going to be, not only playing against the Wallabies, but also against the Waratahs, the Reds and all the state unions, plus a couple of others. It's going to be a really, really exciting couple of months.

Steve 18:26 And then World Cup in Australia, 2027.

Guest 1 18:29 Yeah, we've got both men and women, 27 men, 29 women. And it's the pressure that comes with hosting, but also those that are old enough to remember 2003 and just know how exciting it was.

Steve 18:39 I was out there at the final and not in the, I was out in the back.

Guest 2 18:44 Morg's trying to break tri-scoring records versus Namibia.

Guest 1 18:47 Yeah, mate, it's cool. If Johnny Wilkinson had missed that drop goal, I'd have been a world champion. Probably too important to sit here on this podcast, that's for sure. No, it was, yeah. No, as you say, yep.

Guest 2 18:59 We blame him on Matt Rogers though, don't we? Always. You're not kicking it further downfield. He shanked one.

Steve 19:03 Namibia, was that like 100-0?

Guest 1 19:05 142-0, still the record.

Steve 19:06 And Chris Latham, was he there? I think they got five. Five. Yeah.

Guest 1 19:10 It was a fun day, actually.

Steve 19:11 It looked like it was a fun day.

Guest 1 19:12 The funny thing was, oh, what about Namibia guys? It was the highlight of their rugby careers. We'd caught up afterwards, had some bits. They just loved being at the World Cup. So a little bit like a Lions tour. The Lions tour is a tour. So it's not just about the three tests. The game goes right around the country. You'll see that with the World Cup. And if you get to a match, it doesn't matter if it's a Wallabies match. It's a celebration of a sport. And I think Australia are always great hosts.

19:35 A Melbourne Cup day in the World Cup camp

Steve 19:35 Now we still raise horses. Morgz, I know you love your horse racing. Correct me if I'm right. But there was a year in the sports newspaper where you published your trifecta tips and it got up. Yeah, 2003. So it was a good year.

Guest 1 19:55 I made the Wallabies for the first time.

Steve 19:56 I just said, I've not seen you for, you know, whatever, 20 years, but I distinctly recall that. Yeah.

Guest 1 20:02 That's the only good thing about it was that, yeah, you know, the, I think it was the Herald, the Herald asked you for your top four. Yeah. They asked you for. So I sent mine in and it's like me, John Howard, Liz Ellis, Peter Overton, everyone puts theirs in. Yeah. And then. So who was it? Do you recall? So look, it's the first year Maccabi Diva one. Yep. So we've got time. It's a longish story. If it's a horse racing story. Go for it. Go for it. We can tell it right. So we're actually in camp with the Wallabies in the 2003 World Cup. I've told, lots of people might have heard this, but some horse racing people might not. And so we have a cow cutter, a Wallabies cow cutter on the Monday. Yep. We do all that sort of stuff. I'm 20, just turned 21. I'm on the lowest contract you can have in Australian road, but I really don't mind a punt like the horses. And I think we all, 2003, we all saw Maccabi Diva finish well in a Caulfield Cup. I thought it was the one. It was about $10. So I.

Steve 20:49 Super run sort of came back. Yeah. Eight in that.

Guest 1 20:51 So it was still under the radar. Yeah. I think, you know, the Mammuls and that had come out from the Northern Hemisphere. Everyone thought they were, you know, I think it would have started favourite. So then, so I buy Maccabi Diva for $2,000 in the Wallabies, Calcutta. Like that's that much money for me that I had to go and see Jeremy Paul and say, look, mate, the maximum daily withdrawal on my Dolomite account is like $800. So can I do like a payment plan? Here's a bit. Anyway. So I get Maccabi Diva in the Wallabies, Calcutta. That's the Monday. Tuesday is the big, as Shep knows, test match Tuesday pretty much in terms of preparation. This is quarterfinal week of the World Cup. The Wallabies were in Coffs Harbour in our base. We've got to go to Brisbane to play Scotland in a quarterfinal that Saturday. Tuesday morning is like weights and units where the forwards and backs train. Then you have a break. Then you come back Tuesday afternoon. Yeah. They announce the team in the team meeting and you bash the crap out of each other in the session. Right. So lunch comes. Myself, Matt Burke and Chris Whittaker go down to the tab. I go, boys, I'm going to have a box trifecta and a box first floor. You want to come in with me? And they're like, no, I don't want to waste my money. Don't worry about it. So they don't. So I box up five horses. I had a $100 box trifecta of five horses, which is 166%. And then I had a $120 box first floor, 100%. Anyway. So three o'clock comes. Eddie Jones is going to announce the team for the test match, important test match, quarterfinal of the World Cup. Then we're going to watch the Melbourne Cup and then we're going to go and train. So race comes. Maccabi Diva comes through, wins. Glenn Boss wins. First one, right? Yep. Everyone at home is like, oh, Maccabi Diva. No one knew Maccabi Diva then. She obviously went on to win three. 80 to one shot, She's Archie comes flying down the outside in red and green and gets second.

Steve 22:28 I loved She's Archie.

Guest 1 22:29 For a little known trainer called DK Weir back then. Yeah. One of the Raiders holds on for third. Jardine's Lookout, third. So they're interviewing Glenn Boss. They're interviewing the trainer and that. And the trifecta comes up. So I've won $16,000 on the Calcutta. Trifecta comes up. Trifecta pays $12,000 in the Melbourne Cup. I've got a 1.66 times, so about 20 grand. Boys are up and about. Boys are jumping and high-fiving. Even though, like the Wendell sailors, big punters, they're happy for me. He's looking for interest on his investment. He's trying to snip me some cash. And then they're doing all this and everyone's like, oh, I've got the first fourth still alive. What's come fourth? And Eddie's like, oh, we've got to go on with the Morgs, mate. You've had a good win, mate. We've got to go on and name the team. No, mate. We've got a quarterfinal to win this week. So Phil Thompson, who's a good punter as well, is a team manager. He steps out to find out who's fourth. Yeah. And we announce the team. And then we talk about tactics. We're going to run Sterling Mortlock down the 10 channel. We're going to bash him. And no one's listening. We're all pissing ourselves, laughing up the back. Jeremy Paul, the fine for missing training is like $1,000. Jeremy Paul said, mate, just give Eddie a thousand to him to beat it. Let's go. We're all laughing. We get through the team meeting. Phil Thompson comes back and he goes, oh, who'd you have? I said, oh, I've got Pentastic and I think it was called Frightening. There are two of these left. And he goes, you sure you've got Pentastic? And he goes, yeah. And he goes, well, Pentastic's run fourth. And the first fourth's paid $105,000. So that was my day. That was a good day on the pun. How good? That was good.

Steve 23:57 Pentastic is beautiful black horse. Good horse.

Guest 2 24:00 So if you add it all up, that's almost $150,000.

Guest 1 24:02 Yeah, it's about $140,000, yeah. Don't have to go and collect it. Imagine going and collect it next time. It was hilarious. Anyway, I'm walking around with a check for a couple of days. Look, I'll tell you what it ain't. It ain't Everest prize.

Guest 2 24:13 Well, yeah.

Guest 1 24:14 So it's good money back in the day.

24:16 Favourite racehorses

Steve 24:16 So we'll be at Everest. You guys are welcome. We'll be in the mounting here. Yeah. So your favourite horse of all time is Pentastic.

Guest 1 24:24 Well, the Diva was good to me. I backed her a few times. I think, funnily enough, my favourite horse is probably Octagonal. Yep. Just because of the age. The big O. Yeah. So I backed it in its first start. I reckon I was 12 years old, just finished. It was like late in the year. It must have been a late two-year-old race. Yep. At Rosehill. I grew up going to Remick Racecourse. So my grandmother would take me from the age of five. My uncle worked as a barrier attendant. Mum worked in the gate sometimes. So I grew up at Remick Racecourse. But Octagonal, for some reason, I backed it first start, followed it all the way through, followed Lonra, of course, after that. So I think he always holds a special place.

Steve 24:59 He never won by much, did he? And that's why, yeah.

Guest 1 25:01 It was always like, always the, you know, the great Rosehill Guineas where he beats the Follantes and nothing like a Danes and St. Lees. Yeah. The Cox played at three. Even getting rolled at his last start by Intergays, a bit like his son did with Grand Army. I think not always being the invincible, like a black caviar or wigs, and the manner of the way he won, I think. That's probably what I liked about it.

25:22 Joe Janiak and the Takeover Target story

Steve 25:22 Sheps, Sean from Kurrinda Bloodstock is with Luke Pepper right now. Luke Pepper's the trainer. Luke Pepper was stable jockey for Joe Janniak. Yeah. Takeover Target. Takeover Target. So he went all around the world. That was my favourite. Yeah.

Guest 2 25:34 Such a great story.

Steve 25:35 So, yeah, so you saw Joe speak one day or what was he? Yeah, yeah.

Guest 2 25:39 So when I was in Perth, I got invited randomly by one of our sponsors to a Carbine Club event. It was out at the casino. And huge big ballroom and Joe Spanak?

Steve 25:52 Joe Janniak. Janniak. Janniak. Sorry, that's right. Cab driver.

Guest 2 25:55 Tells his story. And I'm sure everyone has heard it, so I won't retell the story. But I just sat there glued. I love stories like that. Yeah. I loved the battler story. I loved the constant offers that he kept getting and they kept saying no because it was this thing that he had with his sons and, like, this is what's going to join us together. And I know there was some changes along the way, but I just thought that story was great. From that day forth, every time I saw Takeover Target pop up at a tab, I'd make sure I put some money on it. Most of the time it would still win. So, yeah, that was really cool. And I think not being a huge punter myself and not being huge into the horse racing scene, little stories like that really shows me why people take this so seriously and why it's such a passion for people. Because you can't write stories like that and you can't create them. They're just something that sport and horse racing specifically sometimes delivers. And, yeah, it was great to follow that horse and see how its career continued.

Steve 26:53 Yeah, he couldn't quite script that, but I think won five or six million. Joe Janik. Yeah, the last got one.

Guest 1 26:58 He was in the top hat and tails.

Guest 2 27:00 Yeah, they travelled it, didn't they? Yeah. He was telling they built him a special, like, wetsuit type thing to strap all over his body to help him in the flight to make sure his body and everything. Oh, it's a great story. If you haven't heard the story, for anyone out there that's wondering, please go and research it. It's one of the best.

Guest 1 27:15 Takeover Target 30 for 30. Oh. Cracker.

Steve 27:19 There is a 30 to… Oh, there is, yeah, yeah. You're saying there is?

Guest 1 27:22 No, there needs to be. There needs to be. Do a few good Australian ones.

Guest 2 27:27 Even make a movie out of it. Or talk to someone.

Guest 1 27:29 Who'd play Jojo, do you know? I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.

Guest 2 27:33 We'll find someone.

27:35 A Melbourne Cup trip and a forgotten suit

Steve 27:35 And last one, Sheps. I recall when you're playing for Western Force, you went down to a Melbourne Cup event. You'd forgotten your suit.

Guest 2 27:47 You want me to tell this story?

Steve 27:48 Who dressed you?

Guest 2 27:49 This is a cracker. Well, I'll give you the short version. But yeah, I got invited. Emirates was our sponsor when I was at the Force. So 08, I got invited to the Melbourne Cup with a few other Wallabies. And unfortunately, the weekend before was the Red Bull Air Race in Perth. Ran for three days. We got VIP access. I'm telling you, out of the 72 hours, I was there for about 71 and a half. I really gave it a good nudge. And anyway, it got to the end of the weekend and I was meant to get on a flight Sunday afternoon to fly to Melbourne for the Melbourne Cup. And I just kept calling Qantas and pushing the flight because I didn't want this party to end. I eventually end up on a flight at 6am the Monday morning to get over there. Meant to be going to Justin Timberlake that Monday night. Didn't make it to that. The worst part was when I finally landed in Melbourne, I collected all my stuff and I realised that I'd left my suit, shirt, tie, everything except my socks and my shoes at Perth Airport sitting in the lounge. So I was like, oh, it doesn't matter. I'll just go out and buy some new gear on Monday. Public holiday, nothing's open. So I come back, run into the boys and they're all just laughing at me because I'm an absolute wreck. And I had to borrow all the stuff for the next day. So George Smith gave me a suit, Stephen Moore gave me a shirt, Drew Mitchell gave me a tie and there I was looking completely ridiculous the next morning on my way out to Flemington. Anyway, I'm like, I just got to kind of drink my way out of this hangover because I'm feeling dusty. I couldn't care less what I'm wearing. I just need to stop feeling this bad. And I think I've had maybe one beer and one of the boys comes and grabs me and goes, oh, we're going to do a shoot with Channel 7. We're going to be on Sunrise Live. And the girl that's interviewing us goes, and so what are you wearing, Cameron? And I had to tell the story about what was going on. I thought she'd find it funny, but she actually looked at me and was quite disgusted in the state.

Guest 1 29:41 They take it seriously, the bird coach.

Guest 2 29:43 They do take it seriously. But I had a great afternoon.

Steve 29:47 Well, you guys are now anointed as friends of Kurrinda Bloodsocks. So thank you so much for taking the time. Pleasure. We will be at the Everest with Private Harry. So if we can help you. Good luck.

Guest 2 29:58 I'd love to see it run well, mate.

Steve 30:00 Help you jump in the winner's room, hopefully, and tell Wayne Hawkes to get lost. Yeah, mate. I'll tell you what. With Barat Priassa.

Guest 1 30:07 We're happy to jump on any winners, are we? Oh, mate. Ship doesn't mind his mowat in the box there. That's right.

Guest 2 30:12 The phone rings for VIP and winner's circles. I'll come running.

Steve 30:16 But thank you so much. Off N Racing, Morgan Tiranui, Cameron Shepard, thank you. Our pleasure. Thanks, Tim.

Guest 2 30:21 Thanks, Tim. Thanks, Tim.