Lizzie Jelfs on Judging Horses and Women in Racing

0:00 Day one of the Inglis Classic Sale

Steve 0:00 So we're day one of the 2025 Inglis Classic Sale and for episode 24 of Off N Racing we couldn't find a more delightful guest than Lizzie Jelfs. Thank you so much Lizzie.

Lizzie Jelfs 0:12 Oh thank you so much for having me. Yeah it's certainly got a bit of a buzz at the moment day one of the sales and behind us and all around this complex there are plenty of people trying to find their next star. We saw the Inglis Millennium yesterday. Yes. And that was won by a classic purchase 180 or 160,000 I think two darn hot colt for Chris Lees and Jazzy Bain. So great result for all the connections as well. Christine Cook and Frank Cook who are big supporters of the industry were involved. So it's a bit of a buzz and everyone's I'm sure trying to find that next horse. And were you out there? I wasn't no. I was on air for Channel 7 yesterday. So I was in Melbourne and I covered both venues. So Caulfield and of course Ramp. Randwick as well. But the scenes look amazing. I have got a good association with Chris. I've got horses with him. I ride work at the stable as well. Yeah. I've learned that recently. Yeah I said to him actually at the start of the season I rode a few two year olds and I said to him I think you've got a nice crop. And he said I don't usually, I'm not usually a two year old trainer, a noted two year old trainer but he's had I think five two year old winners so far this season. Right. So he's doing a really good job.

1:24 Inspecting yearlings for the final looks

Steve 1:24 And have you had a chance to inspect many yearlings here so far?

Lizzie Jelfs 1:28 Yep. I've done the whole lot. We're down to our final, final, final looks. We're looking at different types of horses for this sale. In particular some horses that potentially could trial horses that could go to Hong Kong or there could be a chance that we will find some nice fillies as well. I bought obviously Chris Dilley was one of the horses that I raced with Annabelle Neesham and she came out of this classic sale so we know that there's some good horses to be found. I think it's 21 individual group one winners so yeah they've got a good record.

Steve 2:04 And just to clarify you're not the Lizzie Jelfs former

Lizzie Jelfs 2:10 Tennis player, no.

Steve 2:12 Number 207 women's tennis player who played at Wimbledon the year that Doremus won the Melbourne Cup.

Lizzie Jelfs 2:19 No that is definitely not me and funnily enough though she does live in pretty much the similar area to me so she I think she's from Banbury and I'm from Oxford so it's pretty much the same county. And the other funny thing is I did get a phone call from the BBC to cover Wimbledon one day through my manager but I you know I declined. I could have fobbed it off but I declined.

Steve 2:45 Well she got knocked out first round anyway so that's. Lizzie I've watched you for years really enjoy you on, I don't know what, it used to be racing retro, not sure what it's called these days but a lot of on Sky chatting with one of our owners yesterday who sort of loved to watch you on Sky. Obviously you're on Channel 7 these days. But my understanding is that you didn't, you weren't aspiring to be in the media you actually, you would have loved to be a jockey.

3:13 Wanting to be a jockey, then Lindsay Park

Lizzie Jelfs 3:13 Yeah, yeah that's really what I came into this industry for. So I loved horses, I never, I'm not from a racing family, haven't had a you know an introduction into racing at all which I think is really important and I think a lot of people look at me and say oh wow she's come from somewhere that isn't connected to the racing industry. Yeah, I think it's come from a lot of horses and I think that's what I really want to you know sort of show that anyone can get involved in this great game and I wanted to be a jockey. I went to my local trainer who was someone I knew and I said I think I'd want to be a jockey and he was like oh no girls can't be jockeys. You know you want to be maybe doing an admin job or in the you know behind the scenes or something else. It's not a not a girls job and I just remember that and thinking and my parents you know they weren't in racing so and they didn't have anything to do with racing. So for me it was just a you know foregone conclusion that we just weren't jockeys and there wasn't many female jockeys in the UK at the time either. So I decided I'd do a bit of traveling and then you know study further because I'd finished school and I went to back to my the trainer who I was working for at the time and I said Charlie Edgerton. He was a great jumps trainer as well and he taught me he taught me a hell of a lot while I was working for him and I went back to him and said I'd like to go to Australia and he said I know someone you can go to. And anyway back then I didn't sort of take much notice anyway the person who they sent me to was Lindsay Park. Yeah. Which was David Hayes. Tony McAvoy at the time was training and came out started riding. I think I fell off every day for the first month because it's completely different to the UK. And once I got fit and I knew exactly you know how to stick on these really strong horses. I am yeah I was like a duck to water and loved every moment of it and traveled all around Australia all around the world. Ran the stable up here in Sydney for a big period of time and have been part of some unbelievable horses careers.

5:17 Women in racing in Australia and the UK

Steve 5:17 You must be proud of how successful women's female jockeys are now.

Lizzie Jelfs 5:22 Yeah I actually had this conversation with one of my bosses recently about Cathy O'Hara. She's doing some work on the seven coverage and I said I'm so you know in awe of someone like Cathy. I remember watching her when I first came to Australia and I saw this you know really pretty blonde girl riding winners in Sydney in this male dominated industry at the time. And I thought how brave is she. She's you know got out there put herself out there. She's you know the public criticised the you know the media the other jockeys. It would be quite daunting stepping out of your comfort zone. But for her it just looks so natural and I think that that's a testament not only to Australia but also Australian racing. I think it's been incredibly welcoming for females more so than other places like we all still have you know a way to go. But I feel like Australia has been the really the front runner when it comes to women in racing.

Steve 6:24 And how to your knowledge how does that sort of frontier for female jockeys and trainers compare to the UK or other European countries.

Lizzie Jelfs 6:34 Well I think there's there's definitely without a doubt more female jockeys now in Australia than there is in the UK. You can see with the apprenticeships as well there is a lot of females as the intake and it's naturally because they a lot of them are riding ponies and doing pony club and they're naturally light and their bodies are more suited to being a jockey as in their weight. But I still I just think all these different initiatives that have come in through racing and women in sport as well. That's why there's been such a big drive. I mean I've got two young girls and they have they don't know a world where women don't play you know football cricket ride horses. You know they just they just don't know any different. So we're living you know part of our lives we're living where we you know we we've seen it change. They're the generation where everything is possible and they can't believe you know some some of the things that are still happening that digressing a bit. But my daughter did a year six exhibition and she did the gender pay gap. She women is born in gender pay gap. And one of the questions I asked her was did you know about any of this and she said no I had no idea. So that's a 12 year old telling you that. So the way the way the world is changing and the way the racing is changing is only for the better. I mean you know better to have women and men all working towards the same goal and you just got to be the right person for the job. It's not about gender for me.

8:03 Fields of Omagh and Lindsay Park

Steve 8:03 Great and that's really fabulous. Getting to some of those horses that you had an association with at Lindsay Park. One of our trainers is Cody Morgan. I caught up with Cody yesterday at Randwick. He had a he had a good association with Fields of Omar. He says he rode the last gallop before it beat Lonro in the Cox Plate maybe in 03 I think. Yes. But I think that's a horse that you had an association with.

Lizzie Jelfs 8:28 Yeah I had a lot of them did a lot of work with him because Fields of Omar actually had a few soundness issues and I used to have to drive to Yaroa which was then just a pre-training property. And I used to ride him up there you know there's a gallop there that's been there for a long time and I was very light and I used to have to ride him up this gallop every fast morning and they wanted to put the lightest person on him and get the you know there wasn't anyone there at the time to ride him. So I did a lot of work with him. I also took him overseas as well. I took him to Hong Kong and Japan. Yeah that was probably the moment when he won that Cox Plate was when I really just fell in love with Australian racing like the feeling that that gave you especially the end the Cox Plate is definitely my favorite race. Like if I could win one race that's it.

9:19 The Cox Plate and favourite winners

Steve 9:19 It's a question I ask on every podcast and everyone has the same answer. Is it really? It doesn't surprise me. It's my favorite race and it's the Waip for Age Championship.

Lizzie Jelfs 9:27 Yeah and it doesn't matter whether you know the Valley is such a unique track but it doesn't matter whether you know if you're a good horse you can handle it and I think that's what makes it such a special place and yeah obviously I cover Friday nights there so I get a taster of Friday nights and the Valley every single week and I love the place but most of all love the race and the champions that have come out of that race have been amazing. Some of my favorite Cox Plate winners.

Steve 9:53 Some of my favorite Cox Plate winners. Dulsify 1979. Yeah. One by six lengths was favorite for the Melbourne Cup and broke down in that race. The three from Kingston Town. Superimpose. I recall when Maccabi Diva fanned out almost sort of ten wide and every.

Lizzie Jelfs 10:12 We had a horse in the race actually a horse called Confectioner and I remember him coming around the bend at the top and there was just this there was like seven horses across the track it was like almost a photo finish and she just swept around with such ease. Yeah, those those races are unforgettable so even some of the great jewels even more recently when pride of Jenny and Mr Brightside were in the Fian I've never seen anything like it. It was a four horse race. I think attrition was in the race as well and when Jenny just kept getting further and further and further in front the roar from the crowd and a group to event there was yes it's something to behold so the place is very special.

Steve 10:55 And I was cheering on Mr Brightside yesterday but just got tackled on the line.

Lizzie Jelfs 10:59 Yeah, he was yeah he ran super though and he will definitely improve he was carrying a bit of condition so and another will was really tuned up so he was ready to go and I think that Mr Brightside just probably needed that run. He was still absolutely amazing they streaked them by a big length so and Stepati ran really well so look out for him.

11:17 Miss Finland, her most talented horse

Steve 11:17 One other horse I wanted to touch on because I was at that Cox the Golden Sleeper Miss Finland.

Lizzie Jelfs 11:22 Yeah, did did a well I did a lot of work with her pretty much. Yeah, I was part of her career for a very very long time especially that early two year old career part of some very very good two year olds careers. She was she's probably I mean Fields of Omar was iconic because of how much he loved the valley and winning two Cox plates and he ran in five of them and was you know placed in every one of them. You ran fourth in one but I think with Miss Finland when you really dissect her career she won a golden slipper and she won an Oaks in the same calendar year and she didn't really stay. And when you look through what she beat did an Oaks you start to realize how good she was and what quality and then she came back as a four year old and she won group ones and she also then ran in a Cox plate as well and was you know arguably unlucky. So when you look at what she was she achieved throughout her career even though she was beaten she was probably the most talented horses horse that I worked with.

12:28 What she looks for in the mounting yard

Steve 12:28 Amazing. You were working yesterday when you're in the mounting yard. What traits are you looking for that you can report back to the punters.

Lizzie Jelfs 12:38 I look for fitness. I think it's really important to know a horse and to know how they've gone from each run. So it that's incredibly important. So fitness is big one for me seeing if there's improvement. So taking that on board not necessarily for that particular start. So Mr. Brightside when I see him next time I want to see him improve and I'm sure he would have. Doesn't need to be improved much to be winning another group one to make it nine. But I would love I love looking at fitness. I love looking at their their gait so their walk and not every horse has a big walk on them but often they have a you know you need to know that how they do walk. And I think it's also important to make sure they've got a good coat as well especially this time of year you want them looking pretty spot on because they shouldn't be looking backwards.

Steve 13:27 And I don't have the eye that you have but I love when there's you've got the beautiful dapples on them.

Lizzie Jelfs 13:32 Yeah that's always a good indication and also the way that they you know their mind is on the on the day as well you know you want to hope they're not getting too sort of buzzed up or or half asleep I suppose.

Steve 13:42 And Mr. Brightside I think he's an eight year old.

Lizzie Jelfs 13:45 He is yeah.

13:46 Judging a yearling versus a racehorse

Steve 13:46 But and how does that compare like you're you're inspecting yearlings here for a few days. So how how do you look at a yearling different to how you're looking to horse in the mountain?

Lizzie Jelfs 13:54 It's actually a really good question because I wondered that when I first started looking at yearlings but I've looked at horses from a very young age. So I've had them from you know Miss Finland came at she actually came a little bit later but I mean we're seeing them in August. So they've been broken in and we're seeing them you know they're coming through the system. So I'm seeing them as very young horses. I'm actually seeing I've seen horses basically from the time they're sort of 18 months old all the way through to that eight years old. So when you're looking at a yearling you're envisaging what they're going to look like in six months, 12 months, you know 18 months, 24 months. That's what you're envisaging when you're seeing an older horse that you you also know when they're when they're fully mature. So Mr Brightside is obviously fully mature. He's not going to get any bigger. But you just the compare when you're looking at young horses you're looking to see what they're going to look like when you're looking at horses in the yard. You're looking to see how they improve. So what their fitness will do through a preparation. It's not how much they're going to grow because they usually they're growing when they spell. So that's what the difference is when you're looking at young horses as opposed to older ones.

Steve 15:04 And Sean does this funny thing. He sort of measures the some length and to try and say do you do that?

Lizzie Jelfs 15:09 I don't do that. But that is yeah, it's it is pretty accurate. A lot of people live by you know, you can you can when you look at a horse for me size is not really, you know, a defining factor whether I buy one. I mean if this if their horses is very is small and what we call set so their front and their back end match and they look as though they're set and they're not going to grow and they don't have, you know, hip on them and they don't have something to grow into. Then that's can be a problem. But I've seen a lot of small fast horses and small good horses. So I don't discriminate. I've seen them all different shapes and sizes. I've seen horses from, you know, that don't have good heads on them that, you know, have got wonky legs that are not, you know, perfect confirmation. I've seen them all. But the one thing that they all have, regardless of what they look like, is they can walk balanced. So if you can't walk balanced, you can't run fast. That's the that's probably the bottom line.

16:12 Race with Lizzie and her trainers

Steve 16:12 Congrats on your success so far with Race with Lizzie. Thank you. I was cheering on Invincible Woman. Yes, that's right. Magic Millions went for $25,000 in the Calcutta. Did she? Oh, goodness. And so Jake from Thoroughbred Sales did his dough there.

Lizzie Jelfs 16:31 Sorry, Jake. I'm not laughing. We'll get it back.

Steve 16:35 But looking at some of the trainers that you partner with, Michelle Payne needs no introduction, Lloyd Kennywell and Lucy Yeomans. I don't know much about Renita Beaton, but maybe that's a good place to start.

Lizzie Jelfs 16:47 Yeah. She's incredible. Yeah. Very, very good trainer. She has got some, she's had some really good results. She's been given horses that need maybe a bit more time or have needed some sort of extra care on them because they're unsound and they're not working in those bigger systems. And she's done a terrific job with me, with my horses. And yeah, she, I would encourage people if you're looking for a Queensland trainer, she's a really good person to have great information. She worked in Hong Kong for a long period of time. So she rides them also all, she rides all her own work. She, her partner, Troy is a big part of the business as well. And together they are a great team. And I've loved having horses with them and will continue to do so. So that's the first yearling that Anders is the first yearling that I bought for them. And I'm excited to see, you know, and they give great feedback, which is what as a syndicator, you want to be able to also have for yourself, but also pass on to your owners. But not only that, you can then make those decisions that is in the best interest of the horse and your owners as to whether they're going to meet the criteria for everyone involved.

Steve 18:00 Great. And I completely agree as a syndicator, we need that really great communication, consistent communication. And you need to put the trust in the trainer to make their decisions.

Lizzie Jelfs 18:12 And then when you have the information as well, you can, you know, collaborate and make those decisions together because I would never tell them how to train a horse. But I would maybe tell them this is the result that I would preferably like to get out of it. Can we achieve that if we can't achieve that? This is plan B for the owners. So I think that it's really important for trainers to communicate, collaborate. And all the people that I work with are exactly that. Annabelle and Rob also have horses with them. I've had great success with them. So they're also a big part of Race with Lizzie too. And Chris Lees as well. So all of the trainers that I work with have, I've got that relationship with all of them. And it's yeah, it's great. I respect that they're there to do their job. And then I'm also there to do mine to help my clients and obviously, you know, be part of that journey.

19:04 Her favourite moment in racing

Steve 19:04 And it's been a really enjoyable one with all of them. Brilliant. And with a few days notice before spending time with you here, do have a few questions from some of our owners. One is what is your favourite moment in racing? And how do you see that becoming a reality, that sort of experience to be a reality for others?

Lizzie Jelfs 19:27 My favourite moment in racing? Well, I think I'd have to go back and say my favourite would have to be when Fields of Omar won his first Cox Plate. I think that would have to be it because I've had, it's a great question, but I've had a lot of amazing moments. But I think that one is the one that like hooked me in and I said, I want to experience this for myself. You know, I want to be part of this. This is what this industry is, you know, so intoxicatingly wonderful. You know, there's good and bad parts to it. But for me, that moment made me think, oh, this is what I want to be doing. So, yeah, his first Cox Plate probably has got to be, there's been so many good ones. And other people, I love seeing other people's success as well. I think that that's why I love my job at Channel 7 is I love seeing, I love seeing what it means to people when they win races, jockeys, trainers, connections. Those are the moments that, I mean, for you guys, that moment when Private Harry won. To me, I look at Sean and say, you've put your neck on the line, you've picked yourself a good horse and you have now, you know, got a big return for your owners. And for me, I was so happy for him and for his family and for all the owners. So, yeah, I just love seeing people succeed and there's enough around for everyone to get success.

Steve 20:57 That's brilliant. And I had dinner with Nathan Doyle and Ash Morgan last night and Sean and some others. And yeah, this is… Early night. Early. Well, we're here at least. But yeah, defining for our business, defining for Nathan as a trainer, defining for Ash Morgan as a trainer. And so, you know, that might be our Fields of Omar type moment.

Lizzie Jelfs 21:19 I think you've got more in store, hey? I think you do with him. I'm very excited for you.

Steve 21:23 First up in the galaxy. Wow, so exciting. Imagine that.

Lizzie Jelfs 21:27 You're thinking about… You're already getting goosebumps, are you? Then what, an Everest?

Steve 21:32 I can't say much, but at least we can dream. At least we can dream. And…

Lizzie Jelfs 21:38 I might be getting a scoop here, guys.

Steve 21:40 I can tell you that we've got 2% owners and 20% owners in Private Harry. And the night that he won the Sunlight, they all had the exact same experience. Yeah. And that's the thrill to a syndicator's ownership group is you can own 2% of a horse and have such a thrill.

Lizzie Jelfs 21:55 Yeah, so good. Very good.

21:57 Favourite part of a horse's life: two-year-olds

Steve 21:57 One more question and then I'll let you get back to do your last looks. In the life cycle of a race horse, the question is essentially, in the whole life cycle of a race horse, what's your favourite moment in that life?

Lizzie Jelfs 22:15 In the life cycle?

Steve 22:17 In the life cycle.

Lizzie Jelfs 22:18 I reckon it would have to be… I love a 2 year old. You know, when they're learning their craft and when they're trying to figure out, you know, how to… Like, working out their personalities when they're 2 is really interesting. Because they're very… I feel like they very much have like a personality right from the start. And when they're broken in, I work very closely with my breaker, Brett Davey, and he gives me lots of feedback. And I have lots of little chuckles to myself with some of the feedback that I get, you know, this one's a madam or this one's this. And I then, you know, have gone through the process recently where I've been able to ride them and be around them in the stables. And I think that as a 2 year old, you just learn so much about them. And yeah, that early stage of their career is… Can always be fun and interesting whether you're having arguments with them or not. But yeah, probably a 2 year old. I've worked with a lot of 2 year olds. I mean, I worked with Lindsay Park for over a decade and they had some of the best 2 year olds going around. We won a Golden Slipper and many Blue Diamonds. And yeah, that's been a special part of working with young horses.

Steve 23:32 You've got an extremely busy day ahead. Thank you so much for spending time with us. Enjoy the last looks and hopefully you can land on a few nice feelings.

Lizzie Jelfs 23:41 Yeah, hopefully I can find myself a really nice one. I need a, you know, I need another Chris Dilley, so fingers crossed.

Steve 23:48 Thank you so much, Lizzie. Thank you.