Dave Rorison Quizzes Kurrinda on Owner Numbers and Buying

0:00 Dave Rorison turns host for a quiz

Sean 0:00 Ready now guys? Episode 10 of Off N Racing guys, the podcast. We made it to 10 episodes through the top. We made it to 10. And share, subscribe, like, do whatever George says you should do because I'm not too sure how you do it. Always do whatever I say you do, especially when it comes to getting involved in horses. We're going to do a little bit of a different episode here guys. We're going to, we've got Dave Rorison here and- Our producer. And, uh, he runs Rorison Media and does all of the behind the scenes magic that you are, that you see on camera. Beeps out all the swear words. Um, so- We don't really have any idea what this episode's about doing. George and I have no idea what we're in for here. So, uh, it's just going to be a few questions that Dave's going to fire us with and we'll probably not know most of them. So, we'll, uh, we'll try-

George 0:59 This is the end of our careers.

Sean 1:01 We'll try our best. What have we got, Dave?

1:05 Is a compressed sales calendar good for buyers?

Dave Rorison 1:05 So, obviously we've had, I think we've had seven sales or six sales so far this year, have we? It's, uh, Classic, Magic Millions, Classic, Magic Millions, Premier, Perth, Tassie. Caraca. Caraca. And then we're about to have Adelaide. Once this comes out, cutest and Adelaide will be done. So, we're flying through the year already, which is startling. And obviously, as they're compressed, we've had Premier finish only this week. Adelaide's not far behind and Magic Millions's sales next week. From your perspective, with so many horses coming onto a market in a short space of time, and what is the pinnacle of probably two-year-old racing in Australia and certainly the Sydney Autumn Carnival coming up? From your perspective, is these compressed sale calendars good from a buyer's perspective and a selling perspective?

Sean 2:03 I'll go first. I think from a- I think in this current market right now, as a buyer, it's an advantage to us. Yeah. Um, I feel for the farms, because years ago when we obviously bred and raced all of our own, obviously we never sold any, but I do feel for the farms in that sense, because I think it's a lot more pressure on them, especially this year. Um, selling-wise, um, that's more of a- George can- can touch on that, but I just feel, um, this year for us, I'll be selfish and I'll say, yes, um, it's- it's better for us as buyers.

George 2:47 Yeah, I agree with you. Look, I've been on both sides. I've done a number of years on the farm selling, um, and we- to be fair, we had some bloody good years on the farm, so I think it was due to change around. Yeah. It's been good buying on this side, definitely. Everything we bought, what we budgeted, I think we got everything under. And we were so happy with that, so we can give our clients value. But, uh, it is very compressed, um, the sales season, I've found, and it can be quite daunting, I think, for- especially first time people getting involved in racing, because there's so much out there, and I think you were saying off-air, Dave, you get peppered even with emails from this company, that company, that trainers, and everything, what's available, and it can be daunting, and so that's why, yeah, you just- you gotta be- do your homework, and go with someone who's a licensed syndicator, is trusted, has the results on the board, and yeah, just do your homework and ask the questions, and give someone a call, but it is- there's a lot there, and I don't know, maybe the sales season could be spread out-

Dave Rorison 3:55 Yeah, okay. A bit longer. Similar to you- cause Europe, in Northern Hemisphere, seems to be a little bit more spread out, would that be correct?

George 4:02 Um, to a degree, like, their first sale will be in September, and, uh, end of August is Donny, and then the last major yearland sale will be October. Right, okay. So it's probably even more compressed. Jesus, yeah. And in between that, like, you've got France, Germany, all these sales, but they're countries on their own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we're the one country trying to compete. Yep. So-

Sean 4:33 You sell all of our yearlings, I guess, do you feel more pressure being- I wouldn't say, because there's no- I guess we don't put pressure on you, and- and the horses that we're buying sell themselves, don't they?

George 4:46 Yeah, and, like, we touched on an earlier podcast that every horse we buy, we love, so it's easy when it's like that. But, it can be, like, I get a phone call from someone, and it drives me mad, to be honest, when they go, I've no idea what I want to get into. I'm like, you've got to give me some direction. I've got six horses, or seven horses, like, do you want a colt, a filly, where would you like it to be raced? What's your budget? Yeah. And then once I get that, then I can point someone into it, but, some people are quite cagey, especially around what budget they want to spend, because they don't want to sound cheap, or they don't want to put all their cards on the table, but I'm only asking because I want to put you into the right horse, you know? Yeah. And so that you have the best experience. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just, just like I said, just give someone a call and ask the question, and no question's a dumb question. Believe me, I've been asked a lot.

5:45 Quiz: how many owners does a horse have?

Dave Rorison 5:45 So, what you've just commented on, in regarding to people calling up, looking for race horse ownership, they've got, obviously, they've seen your brand, they might have seen the silks, got a bit of an idea. I'm just going to have a throw at how many people you think are actively doing this. So, hypothetical route, according to the Racing Australia factbook for 2022-2023 season, from one to ten plus, what is the most popular number of owners per horse? So, in the brackets of people who race individually, as three, as five, as seven, etc., right up to ten plus. What do you think is the three most popular that people choose to race in?

George 6:36 What, is it numbers-wise?

Dave Rorison 6:38 Individual owners, what they choose to race as, as an individual owner right up to, I don't know, 500 in a horse. Where do you think is the most sweet spots?

George 6:48 I'd say, a number-wise?

Dave Rorison 6:50 Yeah, just a rough number. Where do you think is the most spot? Fourteen.

George 6:53 Fourteen.

Sean 6:54 In a horse?

George 6:55 Yeah.

Sean 6:56 Yeah, but some horses we've got 50 owners in.

George 6:59 Yeah.

Sean 7:00 Um, I'd say the average syndicate, if people are creating a syndicate with a group, in a syndicate within our horse, I would say…

George 7:11 But are you including that, or is that one identity?

Dave Rorison 7:14 I'm just kind of roughly going off the race in Australia. Number of owners…

George 7:18 So what you're saying is you didn't do your homer properly there.

Dave Rorison 7:21 I'm trying to articulate to make sure that the question is clear. Yeah.

7:26 Sean's view on micro-share companies

Sean 7:26 I would say with all of these micro-share setups, and I'll be honest, which I just think aren't the way to go. I'm just going to say that. Like, the owners don't get a good experience.

George 7:37 You don't get the proper experience.

Sean 7:38 And they can try and say they do, but if you've got 999 owners in one horse, 20 people are getting tickets, max. On a proper day, on a group one day, the club cannot hand out many tickets. Yeah. So, that's 20 owners without guests.

George 7:58 Yeah.

Sean 7:59 So if you want to be 20 owners in that raffle, to try and get a ticket for a horse you've invested in out of the thousand owners, so be it. And you'll also get 1% of the prize money of nothing.

George 8:10 No, even 0.1%.

Sean 8:12 Yeah. So, 0.1%. So…

George 8:15 What are you going to spend your winnings on? Probably Smith's chips. You get the small packet, not the big packet.

Sean 8:23 I'm not even going to be like Christmas cream these days. No, but all jokes, I just don't think it's the way to go. I don't think there's… People say, you know, 1% of the bill, or 100% of the thrill for 1% of the bill. It's not the case with those micro-share companies. And I just… Look, I'll probably get slammed from a few people by saying it, but I'm just being honest here, and I've always been honest, and I don't think it's the way to go. You're better off to go with a syndicator that is obviously registered, and we're bound by so many rules and regulations. But someone that can give you the experience, and someone that can say, look, there's 30 or 40 owners in this. Everyone gets their name in the race pool. Every single person has their name in the race pool.

George 9:05 That's a question I get asked a lot. Like, what's the minimum percentage I need to take to get my name in the book?

Sean 9:11 Yeah, and they should have their name in their book. If they're investing in a horse, I really think they should. But to go… I won't go on that tangent. To answer your question, with the way it's trending, because I think it's going to be extremely high, I think… I think… You're smiling. I think the average would be… I'll say 60.

Dave Rorison 9:38 I don't have that stat.

Sean 9:40 Oh, okay.

Dave Rorison 9:41 They're only at one to ten of where people are at. The second most popular is 10+.

Sean 9:47 So, it would be up there, wouldn't it?

Dave Rorison 9:50 It's 27 or 20… It's roughly about 28% of ownership in Australia. The number of owners per horse is 10+. The most popular is one. Which I'm actually surprised at. I don't know… One owner. One owner. It's 4177.

Sean 10:10 But is that due to, like, Godolphin…

Dave Rorison 10:13 I'm assuming…

George 10:14 …breeders, yeah.

Dave Rorison 10:15 Number of owners per horse. So, I'm guessing…

Sean 10:18 With the big investor, like Godolphin, that… Yeah.

Dave Rorison 10:21 Yeah. And how they maybe structure this… Could that be, like, the China Horse Club, Newgate…

Sean 10:27 Jerry Harvey. Yeah.

Dave Rorison 10:29 Where maybe they're registered under that. Where they would have… Again, I'm surprised at that number.

Sean 10:34 Because it could be registered as, you know, G Harvey. But there could be 30 owners under… Do you know what I mean? Like…

Dave Rorison 10:42 And it's… I think, like, again, it's… Without asking someone at RaceNastro, how they come up with these numbers… I still think it's interesting of how people are registering. Because… If you look at between… The third most popular is… Is this… Is two… Two owners. Which, again, could be husband and wife. Again, I'm a little bit surprised… That it's at 1500… Of 10,964. But, for you guys… Looking at the Australian ownership and syndication… Now, again… This isn't license syndication. This is those who… Race… Just anything. Anything. Anything that's…

George 11:24 It'd be interesting… If you had the numbers from, like, previous years… And to see… I actually do have that.

Dave Rorison 11:30 Do you?

George 11:31 So, as a… It'd be growing each year.

Dave Rorison 11:33 Yeah. Decrease.

Sean 11:35 In number of owners. Yeah.

Dave Rorison 11:37 According to this, number of owners per horse. And I can find another stock.

Sean 11:41 Have any micro-share companies gone under yet, or…? Look…

George 11:44 Stop slamming that, Christian. There's a lot of people who have to bash us.

Dave Rorison 11:48 But then, on the other side of it, that number might be… So, let's just say they're… I don't know, a micro syndication. They might be down as the owner.

George 11:57 Because they're not…

Dave Rorison 11:58 They're not…

George 11:59 Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true, yeah.

Dave Rorison 12:01 So, again… This is… I'm just trying to play a bit of devil's advocate of consuming what the numbers are trying to tell us, and understand what it's telling us as well, from your point of view. But, again, those numbers are fluctuating like… 2013, 2014, there was 12,480. 2022, 2023, there was 10,964. So, that's a decrease of what? Nearly 1,500?

Sean 12:30 I think people are becoming more savvy, though, and creating syndicates, and that's the thing. Instead of, you know… There could be, I don't know, say a syndicate that we've got named, whatever you could call it, you know, Barsi, and Barsi is down statistically as one person, but there's 20 people in that Barsi syndication. Yeah, yeah. So, or that syndicate. But, yeah, I know what you're saying, yeah.

George 12:58 But it's just smart, like, way of doing it, and makes it affordable by getting into a syndicate, and…

Sean 13:05 Well, it's a syndicate within a syndicate.

George 13:07 Yeah, and instead of you going out and buying a lumped share, like, say a 50% share, a 100% share in a horse, all your eggs are in that one basket. Don't do it. If that horse fails, or has a setback, you're screwed. Yeah. But if you spread that risk, so, say you've got X amount of money, you go, I'll take 10, 10, 10, 10, this, you're giving yourself more chance of success, and you're limiting the risk. Yeah. And realistically, you only need one of those five to perform well. Yep. And it's going to pay for everything else.

Sean 13:40 It looks already a high risk, eh? Yeah.

George 13:42 Yeah.

13:43 Quiz: how many people own racehorses?

Dave Rorison 13:43 So, obviously, based on what you're saying, this question might dig down a little bit deeper, but a bit easier for the listener to understand this question. So, Australian ownership and syndication. Number of individuals who own horses that raced 2019-20 through to 2022-2023. How many, what is the total number of individuals who owned a horse that raced during 2022-2023, do you think? Australia-wide.

George 14:23 Like, it doesn't matter, sole owner or syndicate or…

Dave Rorison 14:26 I would say, you register as an owner. Yeah. You're included in this number. Geez.

George 14:30 Australia-wide. Yeah, Australia-wide.

Dave Rorison 14:32 And this is just 2022, just 2023.

George 14:35 How many owners?

Dave Rorison 14:36 How many individuals? Number of individuals. Can we have like… Who own horses that raced…

Sean 14:40 Oh, two…

Dave Rorison 14:41 Can we have like a ball pack? 700… 700… 700,000? No. I'm gonna say…

Sean 14:49 Yes?

George 14:50 That's much lower, isn't it?

Dave Rorison 14:51 Imagine there's 26 million people in Australia and one in 254 people who own a race horse.

Sean 15:06 Well, this is just one year.

Dave Rorison 15:08 This is just one year.

George 15:09 I'm gonna say… Just one year? Yeah.

Dave Rorison 15:15 Ah.

George 15:16 Individuals. Below 100?

Sean 15:20 No way.

Dave Rorison 15:21 No, no. 100,000 or 100 people?

George 15:24 Yeah, 100,000.

Dave Rorison 15:25 No. Between…

Sean 15:27 So you've went… I reckon it's 300,000.

Dave Rorison 15:30 Higher than George, lower than yourself, you can have one more guess each.

Sean 15:34 225.

Dave Rorison 15:35 Lower.

George 15:37 164.

Dave Rorison 15:38 Close. It was 141,190 people were individuals who owned a horse that year. In a one-

Sean 15:47 That raced.

Dave Rorison 15:48 And that's… That raced. So I think that's really positive for our industry to know that there's 141,000 people participating in the industry. Just in that year though.

Sean 16:00 Just in that year, the raced.

Dave Rorison 16:01 Yeah, yeah.

George 16:02 Can you let them know they can email george.co.bloodstock.com. They're here.

Dave Rorison 16:06 Yeah. And that's the beauty of it. If you buy, let's just say, 10 horses, and you have 20 owners each, it's only 200 people to fulfill your business. Of that number, without doing the basic maths, it must be 0.001% of the ability to attract these people into your businesses. So, on that number of 141,190, talking about increases and decreases, four years prior, what do you think the number was? Same question.

Sean 16:41 70,000.

George 16:42 No.

Dave Rorison 16:43 Not too bad.

George 16:44 Really?

Dave Rorison 16:45 Not too bad. You're still off.

Sean 16:47 It's higher. I've worked on the percentages of how it increases each year. It would be, I think, if anything, slightly higher.

Dave Rorison 16:59 Oh, it's higher this year than it was four years ago.

Sean 17:04 Yeah, so like it's higher than 70,000 though, isn't it? Yes, yes, it's higher than 70,000.

Dave Rorison 17:07 Yeah, yeah, slightly.

Sean 17:08 I'll go 82,000. That's what I was going to say.

George 17:11 I'll give you a clue.

Dave Rorison 17:12 It's higher than 100,000. High.

George 17:14 110. Very close.

Dave Rorison 17:16 Very, very close. Do you want one more guess, Sean?

George 17:18 107.

Sean 17:19 114.

Dave Rorison 17:20 So 114,000. Yeah. Four years ago. And now we're at 140,000. Now that's an increase of what? 35%. Is that 35%? He wasn't close with 70.

George 17:30 He was 40,000 off. But he said he went 700,000 for the first question.

Dave Rorison 17:32 Well, I'm saying overall, but that was a calendar year.

George 17:35 So, well, there's generally a series of the year, but it's not a year. It's not a year.

Sean 17:41 It's not a year. Well, there's generally a 6% increase each year, isn't there? Yeah.

George 17:50 As a rule.

Dave Rorison 17:51 That's pretty strong. That's last year was 135,000. So yeah, that's a 5% increase. There you go.

Sean 17:58 So it's still consistent.

Dave Rorison 17:59 Which is excellent for our industry to know that we're growing in that respect. So numbers of individuals. The first question probably demonstrates how people are racing. And this is showing the appetite for racing. And so then we've got to look at, that was the individuals. What about people who are racing with thoroughbred syndicates? Now, again, I don't think this is licensed syndications. Oh. But again, it gives you an idea of how people wish to race together. Yeah.

Sean 18:31 I'd go 60%.

Dave Rorison 18:32 I'll go, it's a slightly different question, slightly different numbers. Number of thoroughbred syndicates in Australia, 2022, 2023.

Sean 18:43 Who are racing with a syndicate?

Dave Rorison 18:46 No, no, this will be, must be registered syndicates. So let's just say, I'm going to use Alligator Bloods owners as a, they're called like Easy Bond 1 and Easy Bond 2.

George 18:57 Yeah, like us, when the boys like Riverbend, that kind of thing.

Dave Rorison 19:01 And I'll give you a closer, it's quite a low number compared to that other one for obvious reasons, because it's now, we're now clumping people together in groups.

George 19:09 And what was the figure of owners? Overall?

Dave Rorison 19:13 Overall? Individuals was 141,000.

George 19:16 141,000. I'll say 11,000.

Sean 19:20 Oh, I can weigh less. I'll go, 6,000.

Dave Rorison 19:26 George is bang on. 11,321 people.

George 19:31 That's my prize.

Dave Rorison 19:32 Race as a syndicate. The prize is a share with Kurrinda Bloodsort.

Sean 19:35 You know what would be interesting is, how many race with a syndicator?

Dave Rorison 19:43 Yeah, that's one that I don't think they've, I can see here.

Sean 19:49 Because that's growing at about 6% to 8% each year too.

Dave Rorison 19:52 And I think when we try to do some research, I think we could name a hundred licensed syndicators, which is, again, if you guys are filling your horses, people are wanting to race with syndications. Yeah. Like you look at the moment without publicizing other syndications on your podcast. Guinea's winner on Saturday, Group One winner. Everest.

George 20:20 The Millennium.

Dave Rorison 20:21 There's been a couple of Everest. Yes, correct. And I think that's great because then people who want to become a successful racehorse owner are trying to work out the common denominators of what makes sense.

20:38 Why Sean prefers registered syndicators

Sean 20:38 It's so much safer. Like we're regulated, we're bound by so many rules where we can't just do what we want to do. And I think that's, the owners are so much safer. If they pay for a share, it goes into a trust account that we don't even have access to.

Dave Rorison 20:55 That's good.

Sean 20:56 Like their money is secure in a trust account that we can't even access. Like, I think that's great. It's, and I'm not saying don't invest with trainers or anything like that. We all have, because everyone has relationships with certain people, but just be careful who you invest with. That's all I'm going to say. And, um, next question.

George 21:17 I'm deep.

Dave Rorison 21:18 And I think, I think from, from our point of view and probably yourself, you're trying to understand the market, the trends, what entices people. And if there's not people looking to become racehorse owners, then maybe we're all jumping the gun at the sales of the last five years, we've had a year on year increase. This year, obviously with global external, um, restrictions and complications for a lot of people's finances, it's interesting to see how we're all adapting to, to become, to get people into racehorse ownership. And obviously you guys fit the bill straight off the bat. So from your point of view, as we touched on earlier, looking at what you're buying this year, how many yearlings do you think you bought last year? And how many do you know that you've bought so far this year? So in numbers, in numbers, so last year, well 13 this year, correct.

22:21 Kurrinda's yearling numbers and averages

Sean 22:21 But last year was 10, wasn't it?

Dave Rorison 22:24 Correct. Bang on.

George 22:26 So, they were easy.

Dave Rorison 22:29 Next question.

George 22:30 I'm on fire. Hit me.

Dave Rorison 22:32 So that was good because I'm sure that's a sale of the century.

Sean 22:34 Where's my car?

Dave Rorison 22:35 I'm sure that's like a jet. I'm sure Jen was probably the one looking at that question going, well at least he knows how many is on the books yet. And then, so let's look at averages then. So last year, what do you think your average was last year?

Sean 22:47 Well we got a couple of nice cheap ones, like Lyrica Beauty was only 40 grand, so I'll

George 22:52 go and average. No, last year would have been the… Oh she was the year before, was she? Yeah, her brother. Yeah, yeah. Um, oh yeah, yeah.

Sean 23:00 So…

George 23:01 So private Harry's year. Yeah, sorry they're just rolling to the…

Sean 23:04 Yeah, they go so quick.

George 23:05 Um… Ten horses, average price.

Sean 23:07 Including the John Singleton's dispersal yearling that we bought.

Dave Rorison 23:08 Is what I could see from… Yeah, yeah. …of that ten, from when I put it in on BoydSort.com's, like, sale records.

Sean 23:11 I'll say… What was our most expensive? Queen's Rhapsody. 160, yeah.

Dave Rorison 23:15 160 is correct, so yeah. And Son of Eureka was 160 too. 160 is your max price here.

George 23:21 Yeah.

Dave Rorison 23:22 Yeah.

Sean 23:34 Yeah. 75 was Queen's Rhapsody. I've got 160.

Dave Rorison 23:37 No, 160.

George 23:38 Oh, so yeah.

Sean 23:39 And Son of Eureka was too.

George 23:40 First horse I ever purchased at a live sale.

Sean 23:42 I reckon an average of 97,000. Pretty good.

Dave Rorison 23:45 Slightly higher. Higher?

George 23:47 Slightly higher.

Dave Rorison 23:48 99? 105,000 was your average last year. Ooh, close.

Sean 23:53 Oh, that's good.

Dave Rorison 23:54 So, this year, and what is… Have you got our averages this year?

Sean 23:59 I've got that for this year as well.

Dave Rorison 24:00 It's way higher. So, already obviously, you said you bought 10 last year. You bought 13 this year. And what is a sticky market for many, but for you guys, you guys look like you're in a growth period. What do you think your max price is so far this year? And this is an easy one to get. Too many.

George 24:18 Bang.

Dave Rorison 24:19 So, again, Jen's done our…

Sean 24:21 And that was the microphone, Cole.

Dave Rorison 24:24 At Amirahman?

George 24:25 Yeah, Amirahman.

Dave Rorison 24:26 Okay. What's your average price?

George 24:29 One… 175. Sean? Is it close? Close, obviously, yeah.

Dave Rorison 24:39 It is close?

Sean 24:40 It's close.

Dave Rorison 24:41 Is it less or more?

Sean 24:42 Oh.

Dave Rorison 24:43 Yeah, see, I would have said less.

Sean 24:44 Yeah.

George 24:45 I'd go 162. 150 has been your average so far.

Sean 24:47 Oh, yeah. So, I think in what is a difficult market, that average… And that's the sweet spot. Yeah, from…

Dave Rorison 24:51 I think when we did our stats of 75 Group 1 winners last year, the average was 209,000. So, Group 1 winners last year from obviously a multitude of sales over the years created that list. So, you guys are trucking along well.

Sean 25:21 Yeah.

Dave Rorison 25:22 So, why? Why have you increased your purchasing, increased your average this year when for many other competitors, it's maybe a year to play safe? You're chipping it onto the green.

Sean 25:39 I've got to answer this in a very…

George 25:42 Jan's not at the sale to stop us. No, no, no.

25:48 Why Kurrinda stepped up its buying

Sean 25:48 I've got to answer this in the proper manner without getting myself into too much trouble. Well, I'll go down another route. So, and it sounds super cocky and arrogant, but I genuinely believe there's not many people that can buy the horses that… They don't have the ability to buy the horses that we can buy.

George 26:13 No, they have the ability, but what you're saying is they don't have the ability to pick them.

Sean 26:18 Yes. Yeah. That's just being… I've done this literally… People say I've been in the industry for years, but I have been obsessed with this since I could crawl. Like when we used to breed a lot with our old farm, which I don't get into, we had three stallions and they were all homebreds. Yeah. Sonny Gildoran, Free Flyer, Youthful Legs, who he didn't really hit the mark for us, but all our Free Flyers were… had complications with bleeding internally or, you know, externally. Our Gildorans were the worst horses you'd see. Yeah. The worst legs you'd ever see. I have seen some terrible looking horses win some pretty good races.

George 26:58 Yeah.

Sean 26:59 So I've learnt what you can forgive and what you can't.

Dave Rorison 27:01 Yep.

Sean 27:02 And I think when you've seen certain things, the only thing that can help you is experience and time. Yep.

George 27:09 Um…

Dave Rorison 27:10 Can I throw a devil's advocate question into that then? Yep. And I'm a devil advocate on this one. As you say, the ability to buy horses compared to others. As I said, there's been a… Syndications at the moment are winning the Millennium, the Guineas, the… The Everest, all different syndications. How do you compare with them? And you say buying… You're all buying at the same pool of horses. Do you think that every… Everyone has their day? You know, if you're… Is it an increase of horses that… You know, I'm just trying to work out…

Sean 27:48 No, I just don't think we've been around long enough as a syndicator.

George 27:52 Yep. Yeah, if you look through… From where you started purchasing like…

Sean 27:57 We've only been a registered syndicator for three and a half years.

George 28:00 Half crown costs five grand. And he's running at a metro level like… In Queensland.

Sean 28:05 Yeah.

George 28:06 So what can we do with a horse that costs 150 or 280?

Sean 28:10 Yep. Our background is, um, obviously, you know, the farm where we bred our own and raced our own. No one else had shares in them like… My Pop owned every horse. But since he passed and since we started this, three and a half years, we've been a registered syndicator. We've already got 40 horses on the books and… You know, we've got stakes winners. We're running… We've got Saturday winners and open handicap Saturday winners. Not just midways or highways. We're racing in highways a couple of times a month.

George 28:41 And they…

Sean 28:42 No one's seen anything yet. They're not our better horses. Each year, they're getting better and better and better. Yeah. So in… And I sound arrogant in saying this, but in three or four years, we will be flying. And I genuinely believe that.

Dave Rorison 29:00 And I think that's the exciting part is, everyone who's won those races that I was commenting on…

Sean 29:05 Well, they've been around for 10 to 12 years.

Dave Rorison 29:07 Yeah. I think everyone refines themselves, sharpens the pencil, deepens their database. Yeah. And as you say, the things you've learned over the years, the one thing we haven't seen is a 16-year-old or an 18-year-old syndicator pop up and go and buy those horses. It does take time and patience, which was it Bart Cummings used to say? It's the one thing we're born with. We don't always… It's the least used thing or something.

George 29:32 Yeah. It's free, but we don't always use it.

Sean 29:35 Yeah. Yeah.

George 29:37 But like…

Sean 29:38 Things… Yeah. Things take time. You can't just… So three and a half years ago, we registered, we're buying yearlings. Yep. We've got to remember those yearlings, they're only four year old now. Yeah. Going on five or… It just doesn't happen overnight. So what we're buying this year, we might not see for two years. That's what people need to understand. But last year's yearlings were better than the year before. This year's yearlings, they're on a different stratosphere to last year.

Dave Rorison 30:09 Is that because your ability to buy… Raise your average… Raise your overall buying bench? Like from what I can see here, you'd explain that your last year, 2023, was 1 million and 50,000. This year, you're already 1.95 million. So you're obviously backing your judgement, buying more, but you're not buying at every sale.

George 30:38 Why? Just, you've got to back your judgement in this game. Sean said he's got his background and I've been lucky enough. I'm new into the syndication side of it. I'm coming up to a year now.

Sean 30:50 Yeah, and we've got George on board too. That without, like before George speaks about his background, we've invested in bringing George into our team to not only give me another set of eyes, but it's also to go, no, I can forgive that. Or, no, I agree with you, we can't forgive that. And you don't stop learning. You've got to develop with, in the other podcasts that we touch base on, there's a lot of shuttle stallions now. And if you don't change with the different conformations in certain things, which I won't go into detail, but things are changing. And you've got to go with the time.

George 31:33 You've got to adapt, yeah.

Sean 31:34 You have to adapt. And if you don't, if you just stick to what you liked five years ago on a horse, you won't be successful. Yeah. You have to adapt with the new bloodlines coming in. Yep. And George has been all over the world and seen other stallions and other horses and whether they're long in the past and, or whether they're, no, I can forgive that because of this. And George's background being on the farm also helps us so much because if I need a hand at the farm, that's sweet. Yeah. And George comes around, yep, let's do a day there, which is rare, but it happened on Monday. We had six or seven leave and we need an extra set of hands. And then if we go to a sale, we've still got that experience of, like I might say, hey mate, or it's probably the other way around. I'll go, hey mate, like George might meet up with, say, Adrian. Yeah. And I'll go, I'm just going to go and quickly have a look at these two or three lots. The trust is there.

Dave Rorison 32:28 Yeah, yeah, but you need. You need to have that trust.

Sean 32:30 But yeah, like I'll let George speak about his background, obviously.

George 32:34 Yeah, like to back up Sean, like how he believes in himself from his background through his granddad and all the good horses he worked with. I've been blessed too, that coming through some of the leading farms in the Hunter and the world, to be honest, that I've learned from some of the best, but I've also worked with some of the best horses, your likes of Espionna, of Aaron Declare, yes, yes, yes, Home Affairs. Like the list is endless, voyage bubble. It's just, I've been so lucky to be around those horses from such an early age that I can see, I think one of the biggest factors is attitude in a horse. Yeah. And that's what I love. I've seen the attitude of those horses and what it takes to get to that level. Yeah. But also the physical attributes of them. And what you, like Sean said, what you can forgive and what some people wouldn't forgive. And that's our, that's then, like we, we've the utmost confidence in our ability to pick a horse that, and the results Corinne have got so far in the short space of time that, you know, that's why we're willing to, no, let's take it to the next level and have a crack. And that's what we want to do each year. Just take it to the next, without being stupid, go to that next level and bring our clients, existing or new, to that next level and make them part of it too. So, you know, one day, you know, we can dream and we can be part of a, a storm boy or something. Like why can't it be us? Yeah.

34:00 Sean's breeding past and sire lines

Sean 34:00 And so I think, um, yeah, like when, when Corinne Bloodstock was Corinne's stud, you know, we, we were having, we, there was six years in a row where we had over a hundred winners a year.

George 34:13 Yeah.

Sean 34:14 Six years in a row. We had over a hundred winners a year. We always had six to eight runners a week. Um, and George has had the luxury of working with the, some horses that have, um, you know, with the best sire lines, the best dam lines, like you're talking the vinnies out of a group one winner or with me, I didn't, I was working with, you know, no name stallions out of mares that have probably won six races at Taree. Yeah. And I'm not being disrespectful, but, and we produced group winners and stakes winners. And, and that's, that's a lot of luck too.

Dave Rorison 34:50 A hundred percent.

Sean 34:51 It's, it's probably nearly all luck, but it's about managing those horses that we are that back, that foot's turned back to front. How's that horse going to run with that clubbed foot? How's that horse going to run? It's so far back in the neck. It's over in the hole. That's turned out there. Or that, that, that, um, that knee is offset and all they're both offset or holy, like you just, sometimes you look at these horses and you know, they might've just won a stakes race and you're hell.

Dave Rorison 35:21 Yeah.

Sean 35:22 You know, like that horse can't be sound. I get it.

Dave Rorison 35:25 Yeah.

Sean 35:26 There's no rules.

Dave Rorison 35:27 Yes.

Sean 35:28 Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. So with George's background working with the best lines and me working with the worst, literally like, and you get results both ways. It just shows you that there's no rules and you know, we were competing with back then your Bart Cummingses and, and it just, it's insane. Like you don't have to, sometimes or most of the time the stats will show the million dollar horses can't run. They can't pick their feet up.

Dave Rorison 35:56 Well, last year there was what, as I said, 75 or 76 group ones in Australia. Not one horse broke the million dollar mark or not one of those 75, 76 group one winners were bought for over a million.

Sean 36:11 No. And what the only one that you've prepped has won a highway race.

George 36:16 Yeah. Prepped five and one won a highway.

Sean 36:18 Like if I'm buying a million dollar horse, I can, I can assure you I'm not winning a highway.

George 36:22 To be fair, if it wasn't for COVID, Home Affairs would have been a million dollar a year then. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah.

36:30 Stakes-winning mares and siblings in the 13

Dave Rorison 36:30 So looking at talking about numbers and you've covered what you like and what is your kind of go to's. What about your sales stats again? Let's go back to your sales stats, which I'm just going to pull up. So this year, 2024 of the 13 yearlings you've purchased, how many of those are out of stakes winning mares?

George 36:57 Winning.

Dave Rorison 36:58 Winning.

George 37:00 Yeah. Jeez. The time to reign is it? Is it?

Sean 37:04 No.

Dave Rorison 37:05 Let's produce one.

George 37:06 Six winning mares.

Sean 37:07 Hmm. Put us on the spot.

George 37:09 Yeah. Not sure. How many? Three.

Sean 37:13 Three.

Dave Rorison 37:15 not sure how many? three looking at you bought three are they all Phillies? no I think you're a Russian the Russian yeah Dan was a listed winner in America yeah yes you got the capitalist secret agenda yeah yeah and the spirit of a boom Steph Lara I think she was a group three winner yeah correct I'm pretty sure yeah I think I won two group threes from my basic notes here how much of a factor is this for you when you look at the page does it the does it increase your confidence in buying that horse does it decrease because as you said good horses come from everywhere black caviar I think was out of an unraced mare I think

Sean 38:10 yeah talk my head I think it helps that I you know George probably have a different opinion but I don't really care too much I like I pick the athlete yeah you want to

George 38:24 buy the athlete and then everything else you go through after and if it ticks the boxes and it'll just increase your confidence to secure that horse yeah like

Sean 38:33 I don't look at I do the homework in the book I don't look at any photos or videos I don't want to be in for I just want to get on the ground I want to get the feet on the ground and look at the athletes yes and then if we really like it then we say there's 20 that we really like that's when we start to dissect and say all right what are we on here what do we like more so I'd say it doesn't influence a lot to be fair unless unless it's a Philly that we yeah we it helps just to go that bit

George 39:03 extra to secure it doesn't it gives you that confidence from Magic Millions

Dave Rorison 39:09 obviously the ones that you bought your average was a hundred and sixty three thousand from this year's sale on a sale that was two hundred and seventy thousand average those ones that were mentioned all came from that sale as well what confidence does that give you to be buying horses because if you're an owner calls you up and says half expect me to put them into the most expensive horse out of the group one winner but you suggest something alternative where would you set with them averages and talking to clients if you see the client so I'll try and refrain from that from a long-winded then what is the importance of when you come away from a sale you dissect it and you're discussing it and your ups and downs and last year was a good year this year was a better year with just purchases when you look at averages does it give you any more confidence in how you've bought you know like you already bought really well this year or maybe you've been caught okay we've overspent like how does it work because I know myself if that if mr harvey sent me through a bill that said that said 1.31 million is on your sheet how does that all set from your point of

40:30 Why Magic Millions and the athlete come first

Sean 40:30 view as running businesses well the Magic Millions is the best sale of the year yeah January the best horses statistically just produces the best horses of the year yep fact yeah anyone can say whatever but it's factual yep the numbers prove they are the best horses year in year out they come from that sale I would much personally rather go heavy on that sale and deal with the rest of the year after that and then there's other sales that we target that statistically are still strong and some are terrible we weren't at the recent one for a reason and and that's just in and I won't say what

George 41:19 sounds yeah but that's just in our like we have a budget what we go to so that sale it will produce good horses but it's probably in a higher and you're on so and but like you're saying they're like about with an owner comes to me and I'm just gonna push them into the group woman it's not exactly true because we bought the secret agenda for what 120 was that one 200 reserve we got 120 yeah but yet we bought the microphone called for 280 I've been on race mayor so that backs up to what we were saying earlier yeah no athlete we will buy the athlete and that's the way and we've got clients who they want it they want to go to that next level we speak of yes they call I'm in that horse the microphone whatever it is or we've got clients as soon as we announce that we're going with gay and a dream we're sending them a couple of horses they want to race with them yeah because of how well they're going we know our owners that well we know what to put them into or what not to yeah so if there is someone out there if you do get in touch or that just be honest with what you want to achieve out of them where you want to go yeah and like we always say it's not going to happen overnight but we will do our best to put you into the right horse to suit that like we've owners that just want fillies yeah there's different things like that there are that want to go see their horse race locally so whatever it is like just let us know and we'll be honest and upfront and we'll always try push people into the right direction because the end of the day we want owners their ownership experience to be long term we don't want it just to be short in now and

Dave Rorison 43:04 that's it so and just to close out i just think it's always fascinating of how people buy sales expenditure especially that's well above what my westpac account would allow me to buy for looking at the yearlings that you've bought again how many of them are either half or full to stakes winners so the siblings direct first damn siblings are either winners of stakes races or have placed in a stakes race

George 43:37 it would be what one two four three no way more

Sean 43:47 you reckon more

George 43:49 four four really i would have said more

Dave Rorison 43:52 again i could be wrong and i could my stats might be wrong but from what i did last night in bed can you name them then can you name the three winners and the one placed yeah the time terrain time terrain is the winner when the breeders play it can bang on that's exactly what my note say here

George 44:11 is um it's the russian revolution called correct secret um frankly awesome bang on yes uh group one placed multiple group one placed um step flara

Dave Rorison 44:29 it's one the sibling is placed at group place yeah two two siblings are stakes placed yeah one's placed

George 44:37 a group tree isn't it i think without having the notes in front you could be right um there's one more and i and i see you girls so you think group two winner uh bellevue hill i've got here group three

Dave Rorison 44:49 winner but again i could be incorrect as i've done this with tired eyes last night and what was the fourth no you've named them i said there was three winners which is the so you think bellevue girl which is um the belt dam of so the place for step flara the place was step flara correct with two siblings that have been stakes so again for yourself that's what uh just under 22 and a half percent of your purchases are stakes placed or were related to stakes horses or the dams estate there's the real depth from that but diversity your ability to buy underneath the average is impressive and what is a sticky market with those just to close out for any guys that are looking and trying to find that good horse what is a kind of just a little bit of advice someone comes to your website to see all these different options what kind of like basic little bit of advice you would give to someone when you come to the website to help them work out if this is of value to them or the trainer just to help them narrow down

46:05 Advice for people choosing a horse

Sean 46:05 that search within your website i would say just straight up being honest send us an inquiry submit your inquiry and talk to george on the phone and entrust us to put you into the right horse and yeah

George 46:21 simple as that and just be honest what you want to achieve out of it but let us let us put you in one

Sean 46:26 yeah you know like don't if you say oh i'm interested in these two we'll ask the right questions to get you into that one um i think that's the key our job is to put them into the right horse yeah yeah so the

Dave Rorison 46:41 synoptic is after all my long-winded questions to you guys the easiest thing is just to get in contact pick your brains of why you bought them how you bought them what the market looks like trainers feedback and you'll best advise the guys around this their requirements is that the kind of the best way to yeah to go about becoming a racehorse owner yeah 100 yeah and and you just want to

Sean 47:09 also enjoy the journey once you're in the horse um enjoy the whole process it's not just race day enjoy the whole process like whether it be open days at the farm special meetings at the farm which we um try not to do we try and leave it to open days good whether it's track work gallop mornings or you

George 47:30 know trials or going racing going racing going out our facebook groups with we put all our owners in them and they can interact with each other and like get amongst it and we run competitions in them we do

Sean 47:45 monthly newsletters yeah it's it's very interactive with every single horse has their own closed group yep um yeah and just just have fun have an open mind but submit your inquiry and when we talk to you let

Dave Rorison 48:01 us do the rest very good good luck to everyone who gets in contact and has a bit of a sieve through

Sean 48:09 their potential and watch this as i said the next from from this year onwards i think people are going to really know you know that we're here and and it's only going to get better just to close it out last

Dave Rorison 48:28 question and it's a one word answer from you guys each hypothetical within that 13 which one would you just hang your hat on if you went that's that's the one that could be the breeder's plate and that one

Sean 48:45 could be the slip we'll go three two one and we'll see yeah so go three two one three two one tornado

Dave Rorison 48:56 the tornado feeling and what's the dam of it swift sis swift sis yeah any shares left available yes

George 49:03 there's shares left available in her we just got the pds true so um a few people have jumped in already but she trained by matthew dale and matthew dale she is an athlete purchased 50 percent of the horse she is a proper animal when um we looked at her and i turned to you and i said matt will love this horse he came down and after and looked at it and he said we've just got to buy it yeah we're not going home without her she she is and she was and we looked at each other yeah she was the

Sean 49:33 last one of the sale for us yeah and she's the best horse we've bought this year from this ring here

George 49:39 does she she came from yeah classic yeah she did off mcavie stud so they've bred some good horses that people might know mcavie diva star spangled banner and um if i was trying to get a couple of dollars out

Dave Rorison 49:50 of my wife from the westpac account what's the what's the um lowest cost point someone can get into

George 49:57 the horse and get their name into the book uh you get your name in the book at a two percent two and a half percent share so yeah but a filly like her if you're in a financial position like i would recommend if you can stretch your budget or that to five percent or that because residually which i have such belief in that horse is a racehorse she's out of a stakes mare that um six place mare that's um one nine on the track like that's not easy to do in any jurisdiction and this thing oh she is an athlete and the way a tornado is going and her temperament's just out of this world while she's already at the breakers um but if you get a share in her like you're not just investing in her racing career you're investing in her residually as a when she gets sold as a broodmare so you know there's other way alternative ways to get a return but she is a filly yeah we we genuinely love we could talk about all day but we love all the horses to be fair but she's if you put us on the spot and she's the one

Dave Rorison 50:59 there we are last year sold hopefully got me got me involved but really won't be happy yeah but guys no thanks very much i just love to hear people's perspectives i've kidnapped your podcast here to to try and understand the the do's the don'ts how's the wise and um no i agree that i think you're in for a very exciting year coming up and look forward to listening to more of the podcast and creating more with you yeah definitely it's

George 51:30 been great having you on board thank you thanks for that